MDM Trends and Insights: A Deep Dive with Matt McNamara

Join Chris Whitaker on 'The Wireless Way' as he sits down with Matt McNamara from IBM to discuss the essentials of Mobile Device Management (MDM) and its evolving trends. Learn about Matt's journey into tech sales, the importance of securing mobile and laptop devices, and the crucial role of MDM in managing corporate data. Discover insightful anecdotes, customer experiences, and practical tips for deploying IBM's MaaS360 effectively in both corporate and BYOD environments. A must-watch for tech enthusiasts and professionals navigating the MDM landscape!

00:00 Getting Started and Introductions

00:26 Diving Into Mobile Device Management (MDM) with Matt McNamara

01:07 Matt's Journey into the MDM World

02:25 The Learning Curve and Mastery in MDM

04:49 Trends and Shifts in Mobile Device Management

06:38 Exploring Customer Demographics and Needs

07:36 The Personal Touch: Explaining MDM at a Cookout

12:30 BYOD Challenges and Solutions in MDM

16:11 The Insider Threat: A Cautionary Tale

17:17 Securing Devices with Geofencing and Cloud Control

18:14 Overcoming BYOD Challenges: Sales Insights and Strategies

21:34 Deployment and Support: Ensuring Customer Satisfaction

23:55 Competitive Landscape and Final Thoughts

25:55 Personal Anecdotes: The Importance of Device Security

30:03 Closing Remarks and Podcast Wrap-Up

More on Matt- https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattmacnamara/?profileId=ACoAABdBoEoB22FEUOl1VuctY0dkEQcB5yklJZ8

His YouTube channel- https://www.youtube.com/@mattmacnamara.cybersecurity

Transcript

0:00

Hey, welcome to another episode of the wireless way. I'm your host, Chris Whittaker. And as always, I'm grateful that you're here. And I'm grateful for my guest, Matt McNamara. I ran into Matt shocker here, ran to him. I found him on LinkedIn. And then I discovered he had a YouTube channel on one of my most favorite topics, MDM. And again, I did a survey recently and found about half of you. And I'm sure what that means, but Mobile device management and to be a little more specific, he is with IBM and he sells MOS 360 on a daily basis. That's his purpose in life, at least Monday through Friday. So Matt, welcome to the show. How are you doing? I'm glad you could be here. Thanks Doing great. Excellent, man. So yeah, on that note, what's not in the bio per se on LinkedIn? How did you get here? Tell us a little bit about your background. Yeah. So I really pretty much Chris just stumbled into the MDM world, had no idea what it was. I was working commercial real estate and this was a year or two after COVID. And as you probably know, commercial real estate really dried up and the opportunities were few and far between. And I was like, you know what? I keep seeing all these people on YouTube and, and LinkedIn. They're making a ton of money with in tech sales. I got to find a way to get into tech sales. So I did, I did some research. I stumbled on an opportunity at IBM. I hit apply. I thought I was never going to hear from a recruiter or a hired manager whatsoever. Within two weeks, I was hired to join the mass 360 team that sits in Philadelphia. I've been here for three years. So our office is in Philly. My territory is out in California. So that's a bit crazy. I'm out there quite a bit. Visiting with business partners who bring us a lot of opportunities and deals and also visiting with customers, current customers or new prospects to make sure they have all the needs taken care of when it comes to managing and securing their mobile devices. But Chris, yeah, it was just. Something I stumbled upon on LinkedIn. I hit apply and it really worked out. I've been here the last three years. It's the best job I ever had. And I've learned some. What was the learning gap like? How long did it take you from being a new hire to where you could do a call by yourself? How long did it take you to get your arms around it? I would say it took between six to nine months. So I am not full transparency. I am not technical whatsoever. I don't have a technical background. I could plug my phone into the wall and that's about it. So I was nervous, Chris, going into the job being that a lot of the people in the sales positions and obviously the sales engineers are very, very technical. When I think about the rest of the folks on my team, I'm probably the least technical, but I would say it took me six to nine months. So it was a lot of hopping on customer calls. I'm not running the sales opportunity, but someone else on the team is and I'm just shadowing. I'm taking notes I'm constantly in the demo portal and then out of nowhere chris you mentioned it I started the mass 360 youtube channel and I was posting two to three Short demo videos every single week on that channel and also posting them on linkedin And that content really helped me get really good with the product because I needed to know the ins and outs, needed to know how to talk the language of the product in order to successfully post on both LinkedIn and YouTube. But, yeah, it was a big learning curve. Six to nine months before I didn't have to have my sales partner, my sales engineer, Jason, who's been amazing, he's been here 10 years, have to leave the calls. Yeah, you know what, and that's spot on. I've been managing sales people and tech sales for 20 years. And that's about it. If you're sharp six months, but on average it was nine months, six months, nine months to figure out the processes and how to log into stuff and all the features and benefits and all the gotchas and what's an ICB look like. It takes time. That's encouraging. Cause I know a lot of my listeners are technology advisors and I hear it all the time, Chris, I know Fiverr, I know SD WAN, I know, I just don't know mobility. I ain't got time to learn it. I learned it. They can learn it. They're way more technical than me, Chris. If I can learn it, they can learn it. Thank you. And I, you can see my background. I'm an army guy. I spent 10 years in the army jumping out of airplanes and blowing up stuff. If I can do it. Yes. Anyone can do it. I don't, I'm not an engineer. I just, I know a lot of engineers. And through osmosis, I pick up all their hot buzz language, right? I don't know what half of it means, but I wanted to see fake it till you make it. It works. Okay. So great. So three years in six to nine months to get it. Yeah. So that means you've had a little over two years of running your own calls on all. What kind of trends are you seeing when it comes to this topic of MDM? And again, just to clarify, if you're listening and you didn't catch it. I'm not talking about mobile device management, holistically, A to Z soup to nuts. I'm talking specifically about a software solution that Matt, you're the expert here. Define what does MDM mean to you and, and tell us more about what are you seeing and what kind of trends. Yeah. So to answer your trend question, the biggest trend, Chris, that I've seen over the last, say, 12 to 24 months in the last one to two years. So when I first started out, the majority of my conversations were focused on how can we manage and secure an iPhone or an Android device. Over time, I would say, especially this year, the majority of my customer conversations have not been iPhone, Android focused. They're a part of the project, but I would say they're secondary to Windows, laptops and MacBooks. So what a lot of Mass 360 customers will do is they'll start by just enrolling their iPhones and Android devices into Mass 360. As they start to get comfortable, they could see that, hey, I could also manage and secure my Windows, laptops and MacBooks in the same environment. I'm using an RMM tool and a separate imaging tool to take care of my Windows laptops. I could probably do all of that within mass 360. So I would say the biggest trend, Chris, that I've seen is now another buzzword UEM unified endpoint management. So all the devices in the environment under one roof, I would say that's the biggest trend and that's been a very lucrative trend for the folks on my team because that a lot of times doubles and triples the opportunity size, the ACV size of our opportunities and conversations we're having with customers. Wow, what's an average size of the customers you're talking to? Do you personally have a minimum or will you do one device? There's a thousand devices. Yeah, Chris. So we used to have someone on the team that focused on the smaller opportunities. That person now has a territory. So I'm, I do everything. So I'll do one device and we have an opportunity right now for 20, 000 devices. So it's SMB, small mom and pop shops. I have. Four demos today after this call, I have two with small mom and pop shops. Typical conversation for those folks. The main issues they have is, hey, Matt and Chris, it's taking me 45 minutes to an hour to set up a single iPhone for an employee. That's the big issue they have to a large enterprise. And their main issue is around phishing links within text messages and emails. How do we prevent and protect against those security threats? And then opportunities for 000 devices. It really runs the gamut. Again, it's pretty fun when you're having a conversation with a small business owner, next thing you're having a conversation with a CTL. So it's pretty cool. By chance, we just come coming out of a holiday weekend. Did you go to a cookout yesterday or anything with a weekend? Oh yeah. Okay. So this is my next question is going to be a little bit about that. Uh, you're at a cookout, you're at a family event, neighborhood event. And someone says, Hey Matt, good to meet you. What do you do? How do you answer that question? Yeah, I would ask them a couple questions. I would say, did your company, when they hired you, did they provide you a phone? Did they provide you a laptop to do your job? Yeah. They provided me an iPhone. Okay. So what my company does, Chris, it controls what you have access to on your iPhone. So a lot of companies, they'll come to me and they'll say, Hey, I'm going to hand over an iPhone to Chris, and I want Chris to use that device to be productive. I want him to have access to email. And the five to six applications he needs to do his job and nothing else But I don't want chris going on to tiktok. I don't want chris going on to youtube I don't want chris going on to inappropriate websites. That's what my company does. That's what the software I sell at ibm does it controls? What an employee has access to and make sure they have everything they need on their device whether it's a windows laptop a macbook And iPhone or Android device to be productive in their roles. Very good. Very good. And if you fight, most people get that like, Oh, okay. That makes sense. Or do they still go? Chris, if it was me back in the day when I had no idea what MDM was, I would probably ask a couple more questions to that person to better understand it. Like my sister has no idea. What I do, but my brother who's very technical he got it within two seconds. Got it Yeah, and that's my experience too because I being a technology. I call myself a consultant to consultants in a way um And that's usually how people do get them like I just help others that are technology learn and expand I call this an advanced service, right? It's advanced solution compared to basic solutions, just connectivity, fiber, coax, dial tone, not now you can, you get a little more advanced here when you're looking at MDM and so do you mention laptops again, looking back over the last 10 or a hundred deals, whatever. You did. What percentage involved laptops versus only handheld devices like tablets and smartphones? I would say, so you're asking only laptop focused? Any laptop, a mixture of laptop or only laptop. Yeah, Chris, I would say 60 percent. And when I started out, that was a lot lower. I would say it was around 20, 25 percent. What do you think's driving that? What do you think? I don't know. Yeah. I'm glad you asked. I have an opinion. Shocker. I think that the, especially in the tech industry, cybersecurity is becoming a leading conversation. It used to be just something that I worried about, but now there's a lot of companies popping up that are doing endpoint detection. I'm not a cybersecurity guy. So my cybersecurity friends are cringing right now. ERM and DDoS attacks and all this, all this software and, but you call them a CISO, right? Chief Information Security Officer. That role didn't exist. A couple of years ago, mainstream, and I'm sure companies had them, but now it's, if you're a big company, you have a CISO, even if it's a fractional or full time, so yeah, I think cybersecurity conversation is what I feel like for, even from our, my business, my day to day job, cybersecurity. It's a great segue into, oh, by the way, how are you securing your devices? How are you securing your mobile devices in the field? Oh, you, all your delivery people use tablets to track their routes and their inventory. How are you securing those devices? How you make sure they're not on their lunch break using that, that T Mobile SIM to watch their catch up on their YouTube series or catching up on Hulu or Netflix. So that's one theory. I think we're just in a much more cyber secure aware environment, and it's just, it's really good for you and for anyone that's in the MDM business. That what do you think about that? Does that make sense? No, I agree with you. I think most folks just weren't aware even mass 360 customers. So I handle every account in the state of california There has been some companies that have been with us for a very long time They spend a lot of money with us and the first time I have a conversation i'll ask Hey, what does it look like to get a windows laptop set up walk me through that process? They're asking why are you asking about windows laptops? We could also manage and secure this. They just don't know. So we're trying to get it out there, get the message out there that every MDM, every UEM can manage and secure windows, laptops, and MacBooks right next to your iPhones and your Androids. Yeah. What's IBM's position? Is there a preferred acronym to describe the product? Is it, I mean, cause I have seen UEM popping up more and more lately. Cause it's more inclusive of everything. What's the company line? Are you guys an MDM? I say MDM. I say MDM. I have, I've been here three years. I have not said UEM. I probably said it a couple of times if a customer asked me, but I just say MDM. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I think that, that seems still, that still seems to be more common place in that mobility, uh, ecosystem. Let's pivot a little bit, still same topic, but different part of it. I'd like to spend a little time talking about BYOD and bring your own device. I've worked at companies that have given me phones. I have worked at companies that say, Hey, use your own phone and you're on your own. Meanwhile, I'm logging into OneDrive. I'm logging into Salesforce. com. I'm logging into Outlook. I'm storing company data on my personal phone. Sometimes you get a stipend. Sometimes you don't. What are you seeing in terms of BYOD? And why would someone call you and do business with you and Maastricht 60 in a BYOD exclusive BYOD environment? Yeah, so good question, Chris. I would say right before I joined IBM, I was working in commercial real estate, as I said, and I was using this phone, my personal device for work. That company did not have an MDM in place sitting on top of my BYOD device. To protect my corporate data when I left the organization, that company, like any company can cut off the connection to my email in my application. So I can I'm no longer receiving any emails going forward to my personal device. However, Chris, if I wanted to, I could go into my old outlook app and gain access to any email that was set prior to that connection getting dropped. That's the biggest issue I see with folks who use a B or leverage a BYOD environment who don't have an MDM in place. They have no idea, no way to protect corporate data and wipe that corporate data in the event an employee moves on to a different organization or they're terminated. So I would say that is probably the biggest issue I see across the board. Folks come to us and they say, Hey, I have no way to protect the corporate data if an employee is terminated. How do you do that within MAS 360? We could selective wipe that device. It's only going to wipe off the work side where the work profile on that device. It's not going to touch the touch, the personal side of the phone. So I would say, Chris, that's definitely the biggest issue I've seen across the board. What about you when it comes to BYODs? Interesting story. And I love that story. And that's actually not one that I thought much about, but you're exactly right. My last, uh, my last hoorah when I left, yeah, I, in fact, I got to admit for a month, I was really, I found it really hard to just delete that Outlook account because I'm back in Manhattan, I might still need those contacts. I might need to get ahold of somebody, whatever. Finally, I said, I'm just so busy. I don't need it. Is this a distraction? Cause it keeps asking you to log in. Cause your device is going, Hey, password's not working. I don't know what's going on here. So anyway, I was on a call a month or so ago, maybe two months now with a large equipment rental company, hundreds of locations across the country. And one of the questions I love to ask, especially when there's like this big sense of urgency. And the client said, Hey, we really need to get this. We need to launch this. How fast can you do this? Whatever. Hey, what happened? What triggered this conversation? Cause normally I'm like, I'm trying to convince companies, Hey, you need to do this soon, sooner than later, but this is reversed. The client, the prospect was like, Hey, we're in a hurry here. How fast can you do this? And I asked the question, I said, Hey, I'm just curious, what happened? And, and, and we're on zoom call and they're in a conference room together. I see them look at each other and we really can't, Talk about much because there's at least some legal action pending Like really? Wow, that sounds that sounds serious He goes in a nutshell one of our top salespeople abruptly quit because he didn't get a promotion He wanted and then the coming weeks thereafter. We start getting calls from all of our top accounts saying Hey, so and so's calling us. He's got our inventory list. He knows what we're paying. He's got copies for our contracts And of course, there's a not that they said, Hey, we make people sign an NDA, non disclosure, non compete. And I'm like, really? Yeah. He logged into his own iCloud account and then logged into Salesforce and through his emails just started saving all these documents to his personal iCloud account, logged out of his iCloud account, wiped his phone, turned it into HR when he left. No one had any idea. Goes home, logs into his personal iCloud account on his Mac. Voila has all of our top customers. He has all of our billing revenue information. He has copies of our contracts and he went to work for our number one competitor. Ouch. Talk about, yeah, the board of directors, the C level were like, this can never happen again. What can you do? And of course with Mastery 16, you can limit, you can only log into this one iCloud account. You can limit what you do with that cloud storage. So I thought, again, how big a deal is, how often is that going to happen to a client? You know, who knows? It's mobile device insurance in the sense that the data insurance, you hope you never need it, but you better have it when you do need it. Another interesting use case I heard of. I'd be curious to know if this, uh, geofencing, does that ever come up in your conversations? How do you use geofencing? A couple of times last week. And what was the. If you as much as you can share the use case or how to use it The use case which was actually android scanners the scan guns that go inside of a manufacturing facility They didn't want the employees to remove those scan guns from the facility It sounded like a couple of those devices got stolen So we set up geofencing to say hey If the scan guns or the android tablets leave the facility within this zip code forget what the radius was We are going to take retroactive Retroactive actions On these devices essentially make them a brick so they can't be used. Wow. So I didn't so my 360 can be deployed to the scanner itself or was it just the tablets? Scanner scan going still so we can do anything with an android operating system ios windows and mac. Got it Okay, that's pretty cool there. That's pretty cool so You as a sales professional selling to a byod customer. What kind of objections do you hear? And the ones that you win What do those deals look like? Why, again, what I'm hoping to do is for the listeners, if you're listening and your client has BYOD and you're going, gosh, should I call IBM, uh, Maastricht 60 rep and figure out how to, if this is an opportunity, what does that opportunity look like? Where, where are people winning deals with BYOD and Maastricht 60? So your, to your first question, what was your first question, Chris? I'm not even sure I was rambling on there. It was a good, it was a good question. It was around when you're talking to BYOD customers. That's right. The objection. What was, what's the use case? What's why is making someone go, Hey, look, yeah, I got a thousand BYOD users. I need you for this. Is it, why are they buying? We're buying for that story that you just said, and the story where an employee leaves and we need to make sure the corporate data is protected on that device going forward. They no longer should have access to that corporate data. It does not belong to them. I would say the biggest objection we get across the board, any MDM seller is they are not going to want this software on their personal device. It's like we're spying on them. We only have access and visibility into what we're pushing down from mass 360. So we'll have access to email. We'll have access to any applications, any corporate settings that we're pushing down to these personal devices. We're not gonna have access to pictures. We're not gonna have access to text messages. Anything else outside of the corporate related items that we're pushing down to the devices for mass 360. So I would say that's a pretty easy one to get around when you tell a story like the one you just told Chris. So it's important that we go into these conversations with the relevant use cases, relevant stories, relevant case studies of other folks who had unfortunate issues pop up like the one you just told. We want to make sure that doesn't happen with you folks. That's right. No, that's a good point. Do you ever get involved in, I feel like I've made the recommendation or I've asked the question, Hey. What does HR say about this? Do you have any employee handbook policies or guidelines stating, Hey, here's our security posture with mobile devices. If you have BYOD, if you're going to work here, you need an initial here that we're going to put the SIMDM on your phone for purpose of data, corporate data only. Does that topic ever come up with you and your clients are like, Hey, what's your policy or you don't have one, maybe you should include it because if it's in the handbook and it's in their employment agreement, that now it's less scary, or at least they're like they're full disclosure about it. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's popped up a couple times. I would say it's not as frequent as you would think where a customer comes and says, Hey, we're going to try to do this BYOD thing with MAS 360. Can you help us write some sort of document that we're going to send to all the employees that kind of lists what we're doing here, what we're looking to accomplish, and also importantly to the employee side, what we're going to have access to. So we need to make it crystal clear we're only having access to the corporate data, the corporate related items that we're pushing down from the portal. But Chris, I would say that's come up. Maybe five or six times. And I imagine if they're smart, they know you're, that's not your swim lane that they need to go to HR, legal advisor, those other partners that can help them with that. But no, that's interesting. How about deploying the service? Yeah. I mean, when you, do you sell it and once the contract's signed, you move on to the next one, or do you, are you overseeing the deployment? Is there any, I got some ideas, but I'd love to hear from you. Some common challenges. If you say you have a thousand devices across five states, getting it devices. Do you guys help with that or any best practices you've seen? We do help with that. So we have folks on the mass 360 team that are dedicated to onboarding. When we do sell an account, we don't just sell it and leave. Cause if we do that money comes out of my pocket because we get paid also on renewals. So I need to make sure folks are happy. And we'll also take support calls as well, but we do have a team. Like I said, Chris dedicated to onboarding. And it depends on the scope of the project as it could be a bit complicated. Like you said, if you have a thousand devices out there and they're deployed out in the field being used by employees, that's a whole different barrel of problems than brand new devices you're purchasing through a Verizon, We would have to sit down with the customer, come up with a deployment plan that's really structured, and maybe it's just we do a phased project. Where we do 100 now, we do 100 next month, 100 next month, 100 next month, as we're rolling out new devices via Verizon or AT& T Mobile. But yeah, we have a dedicated team here that focuses on that effort. Yeah, yeah, and that's what I see too. There's kind of two flavors rolling out to existing devices in the field. But yeah, more importantly, especially for organizations that manage the entire ecosystem. Renewals are getting a tech update tech refreshes. Oh, you got a phone that's four years old. Okay, great We'll get your new phone have it shipped here We'll put the mdm on it and we ship it to you with it already set up and ready to go That works great for a corporate environment. But yeah that again that that whole byod. That's a whole another ball game I felt that that situation doesn't exist with byod, but I definitely see there's something there It's not like it's not a great fit for every company But any company that's still especially if you're in health care or insurance or in the financial industry You Real estate mean where those big money involved, it seems very prudent and wise to have A-B-Y-O-D-M-D-M strategy versus not. You need it if, especially you, you mentioned healthcare. In order to be HIPAA compliant on your mobile devices, you need policies in place via MDM to make sure you're meeting those requirements. If you don't, you could be in big trouble. When it comes to competitors, do you, I hear a lot about Microsoft Intune in my world. So I heard two things. Oh, we have Microsoft Intunes. And then the second sentence is, It's incredibly hard to set up and we're not really sure what we're doing. I don't never heard of someone like, Oh, I love it. It's great. We don't need your service, whatever. What's your thoughts around competing offers and how does Mass360 stand out, or is it one analogy? I've heard someone say MDM software is like bottled water. They're all the same. They just have different labor. I really like that. I'm going to steal that and start using that on my customer calls because I get asked that all the time. What's the difference between Mass360 and Intune, a VMware and AirWatch? And it really depends on the conversation with the customer and their use cases. But Chris, I would say 90 percent of the time, at the end of the day, when the use cases are pretty basic, we all are going to do the exact same thing technically. So no matter who they go to, they're probably going to be taken care of from a technical perspective. MAS 360, we're not the cheapest solution out there. So if the customer, if they look at their decision criteria, And price is number one. I always recommend a few of our competitors because they're probably going to be a better fit for their specific project, but if price maybe isn't their biggest concern, but getting the product set up the first time correctly, and then post sale support, where you're not gonna have to call a 1 800 number to get help with the product, because all these products, there's going to be issues that pop up with any MDM that they decided to move forward with, then a mass 360 might be a better fit. But that's right. I always tell people you get paid for it, right? Yep. Yep. I love it. Okay. So Matt, we've talked about a lot of things here. I talked about BYOD, why someone would buy it, some trends and use cases. Any interesting other anecdotal stories, anything else you can share with us help drive this point home that Mosfet 360 is a great solution and every company with devices should be looking at it. What say you? Yeah, good question. One that comes to mind, Chris, is the first time I met my girlfriend. So my current girlfriend, I've been with her a little over a year. Doesn't have to do with the dating app, does it? It was dating app. I met her on Hange. So we met on Hange, as everyone meets these days. I met her on Hange and I met her at a bar in Philadelphia a couple blocks from my office. After the date, I get home. I'm living with my parents at the time. I get home, my mom is like asking me all these questions, how'd the date go? And I get a text from my girlfriend's name is Amanda. I get a text from Amanda and it said, Hey, Matt, you didn't happen to pick up one of my iPhones by chance, did you? And I said, No, I didn't pick up one of your iPhones. So she has two devices. She has her corporate issued iPhone and her personal iPhone. The device that was missing was her corporate issued iOS device. I didn't have it. We checked the bar. The bar we were at didn't have it. She eventually did find my iPhone and saw that her corporate issued iOS device was all the way across the city. So somebody at the bar picked it up and stole it. Her company, unfortunately, didn't have an MDM in place to protect the corporate data in the event an iPhone, an Android device, a Windows laptop is lost or stolen. So going forward, I know she no longer works for this organization. She moved on to a different organization. But I was telling her, hey Amanda. This is what I do. We can help manage and secure those devices in the event a device is lost or stolen. We can protect the corporate data. We can make sure those devices are set up quickly so no one on the IT team has to manually set up and configure those devices again. And we can make sure you and all your coworkers, they have everything they need all these devices to be productive in the roles. And that's what we do in the MDM, the UEM world, what we do at Master 360. Wow. So that, that is a cool story. And it sparked the thought in my head. I heard a somewhat similar story, New York city. So this guy was, in fact, in fact, sometimes when you talk about those kinds of features of remote wife and locking it down, she would go, I got my, I got my biometrics on here. I get your thumbprint, my face ID. All right. I'm a passcode. They're never going to get in bad actors that want to get in. We'll get in. So this story, the guy was like, yeah, I, I was in a cab, yellow cab in New York city. Yeah. And I, I'm fumbling with my bag and my backpack and our umbrella, my phone. I get to my destination. I jump out of the car and I get three steps from the car. I go, Oh my God, my phone's on the, he left his phone on the seat of the cab. Of course, the cab was gone and he went to his iPad and his backpack and went to find my iPhone. And he said, by the time he logged in, he saw it and then it just went away. And so he filed a police report. The cop was there and he told me, I says, Oh yeah, that's a big problem here. It's got the criminal underground. They paid the tax, the cabbies, they give them a aluminum foil bag. To put the phones in which is like a faraday cage It shut it shuts down the signal and they take it to a central location They they turn it in to get twenty dollars for it They sell it to some criminal organization and they take it offline. They hack it They either refurbish the parts or but that's that's probably I would hope a worst case scenario But the fact that's even a thing that's scary They're hoping you leave a phone in their car because they're gonna make a little money I don't know how much I should get paid on it. But interesting that's that's a real concern, right? So Crazy not surprising Yeah, it shouldn't be. That's what I'm saying. Being naive and expecting everyone to do the right thing is just, especially in the big cities, that's risky. That should not be a policy. So, as we wrap up here, Matt, any last words? Anything else you want to share? For the record, yeah, definitely check the show notes. I'm going to have Matt's information in the show notes as well as his YouTube link. Definitely check out if you if this is your thing and you're trying to learn more about MDM and specifically Master 360 check out Uh his youtube, but anything else you want to add? Yeah going back to how we started the conversation This is not that difficult to learn I learned it within again six to nine months where I was having conversations on my own with five six people On the opposite side of the table. So as the use cases are very similar, the same problems pop up. If anyone has any questions about some questions you should be asking your clients to uncover a mass 360 or an MDM UAM conversation, let me know. I have lots of videos on that topic as well on the YouTube channel. But Chris, firstly, thank you for your service. I know we're day after Moral Day weekend. Thank you for your service, and thanks for having me on the podcast, man. You guys are all worth it. And I'm glad you agreed to it, man, because like I said, I saw your videos. Oh, man, this guy. We're coming from the same cloth, just different parts of the country and maybe a different generation, but we're on the same mission. We were talking pre show that it takes someone to grease the skids, grease the gears, have these conversations, share knowledge, share experiences, because that's how we all learn, especially if you're a technology advisor. I tell, I remind people, especially people have been doing as long as I have, we were selling T1s back in the day and PRIs and things, technology don't even exist hardly anymore. And I remind them, Hey, remember when we transitioned to fiber, remember we went from analog phone lines to voiceover IP, every new technology has that, that, that learning curve where you're uncomfortable with it. Cause you're like, I don't want to ask a question that I don't know what the answer is, but yeah, the more you do it, the more you research, cause I imagine that six to nine months, I wanted to say, cause I'm thinking if I'm a, I'm a technology advisor listening right now. And I don't know anything about MDM, they're probably like, I don't have six to nine months to figure this out. You don't need to. That's right. You don't need to. Use your resources, right? You have people teach you. You got YouTube channels like yours, like mine. There's people willing to help you, right? You just need to know what an opportunity looks like. Know that they have devices and they need to secure them. You don't need to have a discovery conversation. You just need a couple of questions in your back pocket to ask a customer that might, again, uncover a conversation with somebody like a Mastery 60. That's it. Very simple. All right, man. Hey, I think we covered a lot of ground in a short time, man. So thanks again for your time. I appreciate it. Thank you, Chris. Appreciate it. And there you go. Another episode of The Wireless Way. As always, if you like what you heard, like, share, subscribe, tell a friend that that helps get this message out to more folks. And I can promise you, I'm not making a dime yet. I don't plan on anytime soon. It's more by getting the word out. The more people know is we say what a rising tide rises all boats. So let's get the word out and I appreciate you listening and we'll catch you next time on The Wireless Way.