From Fungal Networks to Netflix: Lessons in Adaptation and the R6 Framework with repeat guest, Hendrith V Smith.

The Wireless Way - Business Paradigm Shifts & Technology with Hendreth V. Smith

Welcome to another episode of The Wireless Way! Join your host, Chris Whitaker, as he dives into the world of business paradigm shifts and technology with repeat guest Hendreth V. Smith, managing partner of Mayflower Plymouth Capital LLC. The discussion explores how companies can navigate change, drawing lessons from nature, supply chains, and well-known business success stories like Netflix. Hendreth shares his R6 framework for continuous review and adaptability in business, and emphasizes the importance of both efficiency and effectiveness in achieving sustained success. Don't miss this insightful conversation!

00:00 Welcome and Introduction
00:08 Milestones and Achievements
00:34 Guest Introduction: Hendreth V. Smith
01:55 Nature's Lessons for Business
04:30 The R6 Framework Explained
13:21 Case Studies: Blockbuster vs. Netflix
32:26 Efficiency vs. Effectiveness in Business
37:44 Closing Remarks and Upcoming Events

His book we discuss- click here

His other books- click here

His first interview with me from Dec 2022- Click here 

More on Hendrith- LinkedIn

Transcript

Chris: 0:00

Hey, welcome to another episode of the wireless way. I'm your host, Chris Whitaker. And yes, I'm grateful that you're here, but I'm like equally grateful this week. There's a lot of great things going on in the world of wireless way for wireless wit. If you follow me on social media, of course, I'm sure you've seen, I had this another milestone and I've had a lot of milestones in life. And. And some of them, I just know they're big ones. And this was a big one starting with Intellisys again, leading their charge overseeing their mobility and their internet of things practice. And, as a national resource for our partners and our suppliers. So that's a great thing. And man, here I am today with a repeat guest Hendreth V. Smith Hendreth Vanlon Smith has been on the show before. We're going to get into that in a moment but in case you haven't caught that episode way back in December of 2022 a little bit about him Hendreth serves as the managing partner of Mayflower Plymouth Capital LLC, an investment partnership. His wealth of business wisdom has garnered recognition from influential platforms, including Seeking Alpha, Forbes. Yahoo finance, good housekeeping, a brilliant young university and data driven investor making Henry the sought after expert in the business world, which I'm, that's why I'm glad he's on my show today. And we'll get into a little more of the history there, but man so grateful for it. With a track record of success, a passion for helping businesses thrive. And podcast shows, apparently a portfolio of accolades. He continues to be a driving force in the world of business. Hendrith man, thank you so much for making time. And we had to go back and forth a little bit, but here we are today. Thank you for being here, Chris. It's absolutely a pleasure and an honor to be here. I love your podcast and I love the work that you do. So it's really my pleasure to be here. Fantastic. I always say, man when like minded people with similar goals, align, amazing things can happen. And you had you've done some work and a few quotes around, how we can just look to nature to learn so much about how we're supposed to live the same called life, and nature has a lot of great examples of how things should be done. And it just seems natural that we've, we pumped into each other. Absolutely, Chris. Absolutely. There's a ton to learn from nature. And interestingly enough, much of it, could be applied to the business world and economics and even technology. Sure. What do you mean by that? Give me some examples of some of the more common examples that you've seen. One example I would, that just comes to the top of my mind is the example of fungal networks in forests they transport essentially nutrients from one tree to another tree or one plant to another plant. And this happens at scale. And it just so happens that these fungal networks distribute this, these nutrients in a very efficient way to bring up something that you're passionate about. And also in a very effective way. So I think when we think about, supply chains in particular there may be much to learn from fungal networks and forests that could be applied to, how we manage supply chains products being distributed across, vast networks. Yeah, that's some deep stuff, even when I think about technology in the world that I'm in most recently, we launched a product in a previous role where device end of life management and, when you look around it's been a little over 10 years that, true smart devices, maybe 12 years or so this true smart devices have been, commonplace, it's not, most people have a phone or watch or tablet or all three. But every two or three years, companies, do a tech refresh and everyone's really excited to buy new devices and get the latest and greatest, but no one's really excited about what to do with all these devices are outdated, broken screens, the battery won't charge. They're piling up in warehouses and they got precious metals on them, some toxic metals, the batteries yeah. So going back to nature, how nature can, recycle and make good with, what was now old can help bring in the new. So I think even recycling, technical equipment and devices is a, as a topic that, must be had about many companies, but, recycling is a good thing. We can repurpose and reuse these devices. Absolutely. I agree with that a hundred percent, Chris. In fact and I know you really wanted to talk about, the The R6 framework. Yes. But for a moment to touch on what you just mentioned as far as learning from nature and recycling, et cetera, this kind of ties into another framework that I've created, which is permaculture economics or equitable and synergistic systems economics. And in that framework, I've actually identified a principle or stated a principle, which is very simple that I call it, just produce no waste, but it's what, what's really, I would say most applicable about it is when we think about manufacturing, if we can have a system where every economic participant produces something that simply can be consumed. Profitably by another economic participant, we could perhaps solve the problem by simply by eliminating the whole idea of waste itself. And doing that without forcing anybody to without forcing any economic participant to engage in any sort of charitable activity. And just keeping it strictly business and saying, look, Just whatever you produce, it has to be able to be consumed profitably by another economic participant. Think if, the manufacturers of cell phone companies to touch on what you just mentioned, for example, adhere to this principle, we would have a system where, all of our old devices aren't piling up somewhere because there would be something economic participant who would be able to consume those products and do something with them and do it profitably. And I think that's a key point because if you're forcing somebody to consume something unprofitably, now you're getting into treacherous territory as far as, using the government for force and forced charity and things like, why would they why are we doing this? Yeah there's no benefit financially. As much as we, it feels good to do the right thing. At the end of the day, people got bills to pay. People want to be compensated and, capital's not evil. Absolutely. And the whole system has to sustain itself over time. So for that to happen, profit has to be. Essential. You're spot on, Hendrith. There's a whole ecosystem called the secondary device market that does thrive and do, they do just exactly that. And they'll in fact, they'll, they were sharing with me. I was I've been interviewing and working with some of them. In fact, I'm doing a podcast coming up soon with a group called cell phones for soldiers. And and their big moment is. Taking maybe two or three or four year generation type devices that no one else wants and refurbishing them and giving them to veterans of, veterans of all of our armed forces that are struggling to get back on their feet. The transition may have been hard for some. So again what a great, not only is that. A definition of what an example of that definition you gave, but it's just a good thing. That's a good thing to do to help out these these various warriors that are just down on their luck. And if you're trying to get a job or you're trying to get going in life, you don't have a home phone or a cell phone. You almost don't exist. It's like, how do we get ahold of you? But But now I, it is cool to see these organizations that, I think the biggest problem, and I'm glad we're talking about this one, even on our outline, but so many companies don't even know that there is such a thing as a secondary device market. They just, they don't want to throw them away for two reasons. One, they have, of course, corporate data on there. Maybe they have sensitive information on there. That's one. And two, they like we can't just throw these away. There's, lithium batteries here. We'll get fine. That it's an environmental risk. But there's a lot of options out there. So if you're listening and you have customers that have a lot of devices stacking up in a warehouse or in a box somewhere in a closet they could possibly even get comp, get reimbursed, someone will buy them and buy them, maybe, pennies on the dollar or 50, for an old iPhone, but they can refurbish them. Even flip phones and some even the flip phones are making a comeback here in the States, but in other parts of the world where, flip phone that no one in the States may want, that could be. That could be huge for someone even a Palm pilot. I've heard of some Blackberries for example, a lot of these things that are just, you just don't see anymore somewhere else in the world. That's their lifeline, it's fascinating. I don't want to lose track of the original conversation again. We've been, virtual friends now, at least since 2022, December, 2022. And you recently posted something that I want to share with the listeners. And you called it your R6 framework. And if you're listening, you'll pick up on that in a moment, but there there's six components and I'm going to ask you to walk us through them and how and why this came up, but the first one is review macro changes, identify the big changes happening in society and your industry. That makes sense. I read that. I'm like, yeah, that's a good one to do. Reassess capabilities in the context of macro changes. Oh, now we're getting somewhere. Evaluate your strengths and weaknesses in light of the changing landscape. Now, yeah, now it's starting to get a little challenging. I felt, that's okay, that's that, that requires some change. So that's number two. So you got review reassess. And then the third one's redefine target market based on that reassessment. Determine who your ideal customer is considering one into how to reach them. Now we're getting strategic, man. This is really getting good. So you got. Versus review, then reassess and then redefine. And the fourth one is redirect capabilities toward redefine target markets, align your resources and efforts to meet the needs of your newly redefined target market. By the way, check the show notes. I'll have a link to his post. If you're driving or not able to take notes, I completely get it. Check the show notes. It would be worth your time. Number five is restructure the organization accordingly. Make the necessary changes to your restructure and processes to support your new direction. Wow. Now that's where real, I've seen so many organizations really skip number five and we know, I know from experience, that's a bad idea. I've, even before I read this Hendrith, I was like, man, you got this, you nailed it. And then last in summary, review, reassess, redefine, redirect, restructure, and boy, love this one. The last R in R6, repeat, continuously review and adapt to ensure ongoing success, do steps one through five again. What a great framework. It is so complex, man. There's a lot in there, but it's so simple. I feel like anyone could read that and go, yeah, I know what you're talking about. So how did you come up with this? Why did you come up with this and kind of talk us through it? Sure, Chris. And thank you for going over that. I would say this framework was initially thought of as a result of a combination of things. One, from my interactions with clients of mine as a private business consultant. And just seeing the challenges, specifically the change management challenges that some of my clients were going through. And thinking of identifying a basic framework that I could empower them with to navigate, these change management challenges and then also just being a student of business. I really study business all the time. I just love it. And just reading case studies and studying businesses of all sizes and industries. And studying the successes and also studying the failures specifically in, in, in regard to change management. And all of that together brought me to creating this framework that I believe if utilized will position any company, any organization for. long term success regardless of what's happening in, in the macro environment. And during that process of writing that book and what was the name of the book again? Yeah. So the book was called, is called business paradigm shifting business paradigm. And did you find examples of, of organizations that, that, that do anything like this or ones that maybe what would some of the failures look like? People that maybe skipped some spots, what's the risk of not having this, of not using this kind of framework? Yeah. Cool. I think there's a classic example that comes to mind. And so I'll bring up this classic example and and then maybe we can also talk about a few other examples. But the classic example that comes to mind is as a failure, Blockbuster. the movie. Yeah. And also to keep it similar as a success story, I would identify Netflix. So if we look at first and I'll, be just straight up here. And so I, when Blockbuster was going through its sort of decline, I was still essentially a kid. But I did watch that whole thing take place. And Netflix, I watched that whole rise take place. I remember ordering my first my parents ordering Netflix in the mail when I was a high school student. And then, myself throughout college adopting to that and still today. But if you look at Blockbuster they, I would say failed to review You know, step one in this R6 paradigm is review the macro changes, they failed to review or accept the macro changes, the changes that were taking place in broader society, and to touch on your space they didn't. Review or accept the technological changes for one, right? There were technological changes that were taking place in the macro environment at that time that should have alarmed blockbuster as to, Hey, these are some things that could interrupt our business. These are some things that we need to really pay attention to and take seriously, Things, just the evolution of the Internet. The evolution of hardware and the ability to put, larger amounts of data on new formats of hardware. And just to put it in plain terms, going from, say, VCR to DVD. Et cetera. And they really, I think, didn't review effectively or accept those macro changes. I've read quite a few case studies on Blockbuster and there was a just, there was apparently a a very blatant just refusal to accept The implications of those macro changes, Hey, we see all that stuff going on, but we don't really think is going to really affect us. And so they paid the price for that. The second step reassess the business's capabilities in context of the macro changes. Blockbuster didn't even, honestly, they didn't even get to that second step. And those next steps after that, because they failed. at the first step. And, just that in and of itself, spelt their inevitable demise. You look at Netflix on the opposite end of the spectrum. And by the way I can reflect and I, that whole process in retrospect took place pretty quickly. It was one year you're shopping at Blockbuster to buy DV, to buy VCRs. And it's not that long after the whole paradigm. Has shifted, but look at Netflix, Netflix came along and they had the DVD rentals and, I remember being a high school student and my parents, ordering, Hey kids, which DVD do you want to pick this week? Oh yeah. Even the smell of Blockbuster, when you walked in, that plastic smell or whatever, or maybe popcorn, if they had it going. Yeah, absolutely. It was an experience. It was an experience, and I think they Blockbuster was, to use that word paradigm again, they were, their success was the product of a certain paradigm, an external paradigm. Yeah. We as a society had a certain relationship with entertainment and they came about and thrived and achieved success in the context of that particular relationship, that particular paradigm and when the external paradigm shifts, it creates a situation where What was successful in the old paradigm may not necessarily and probably won't be successful in the new paradigm, which is why, a business or an organization has to go through. I would call internal paradigm shift, which is what, hence the name of the book, business paradigm shifting. So we're seeing the we're seeing either the existing paradigm shifts going on out in the world or the paradigm shifts that are coming. And we're saying to ourselves as a company, as a business, as an organization, hey, we need to go through an internal paradigm shift. So that we can continue to survive and thrive in the context of these external paradigm shifts, yeah. And I think Netflix really did a great job of that. They they, got on board with the whole DVD rental thing, which in and of itself, they were just slightly ahead of their time. if you juxtapose them to blockbuster. And then they quickly realized they looked out at the macro environment. They reviewed the macro changes, which is step one. And they said, they looked at all the changes taking place and mostly those were technology, technological changes. But they were also social changes in terms of how people the relationship between people and entertainment. how people want to consume and interact with entertainment. And so they quickly pivoted to the whole streaming model. They scrapped the DVDs not abruptly, but they phased that out over, I would, in retrospect argue was a pretty short period of time. And they phased in. As the streaming, and that required a totally different paradigm. shift internally. It's going from this whole idea that I want as a customer to have you, Netflix, send me a movie that I can watch at home and then I will send you back the hardware that movie contains that movie is exists on. And then we repeat that process over and over again to a model where you don't give me any hardware you're just essentially giving me the right to access a digital movie on your hardware, which is somewhere else. And so that, that. That just really required a major internal paradigm shift for Netflix. And there was, I've reviewed quite a few case studies on this and there was a lot of internal debate about whether or not they should do this. Or, and, or the rate at which it should be done. Is this something we should just jump into or should we see how things go and then just. Gradually go accordingly, but they made those internal shifts. They made that internal paradigm shift. They reassess the business's capabilities in the context of those macro changes. Step two, right? So this requires changes to their operations, Chris, you're going from a system where you're manually mailing out DVDs. hardware to, to a new system where you may have to invest more on a larger scale kind of hardware such as data centers and minimize, the whole DVD thing. So there were all kinds of changes that they had to think about and execute and just really had to reassess their capabilities. They had to redefine their target market. Who, who's gonna, who's going to be interested in streaming a DVD versus who's going to be interested in having us send them a VCR or DVD in the mail. And those may eventually have become the same group of people, but at the exact point in time when they were undergoing this change, those were not the exact same group of people, because the people who were, would accept the idea of streaming we're one set. The others may, may have been just opposed to that. I remember, honestly, if I can just be honest for a second, I remember being a college student around this time and saying to myself want to have the physical thing. And there was even and even renting the physical thing was I had to grapple with it because I wanted to own the physical hardware that the movie was on. I don't want to give this back. I don't want to give this back. I'm trying to, especially if you're a collector, there's some peace and seeing them on your shelf, right? Exactly. It's I want to be able to say this is mine. I own this, too funny. And the idea that you could own something. In a digital space had not quite caught on in the mainstream psyche yet. And Netflix was dealing with essentially two or numerous different possible target markets. So they had to redefine their target markets based on their reassessment, which is step three. Then they had to redirect their capabilities towards that redefined target market. So there, there were some divestments that had to be made. They didn't need to invest as much in the capability of, shipping out hardware in the mail. But now they had to invest in the capability of being able to facilitate large scale data transfers essentially, because people were going to be accessing these this data, right? This digital data, which is what a movie or show boils down to people going to be accessing this at scale. And in many cases, all at the same time. And so they needed to redirect their capabilities towards that new reality. And they had to restructure the organization also based on that. And they didn't need a big shipping and receiving warehouse anymore, for example, right? Exactly. So that's a great example of some restructuring that had to take place within the company. And this would have been costly but this would have also produced, long term profits and long term market dominance as well. And, the last step repeat, this is the sixth step in the R6 framework is, that's an ongoing story. We're seeing how the company is continuing to. To do this or to, at least to try to do this. And I think when they stop, if they stop doing this we'll see the end of the company. Yeah. Yeah. As you're right. They went from shipping, VHS tapes in the mail to not only have a streaming service, but they have their own productions. They're making their own shows even, that's definitely a bit, a product of that step six at some point. Someone says, Hey, wait a minute. Why are we paying royalties to all these shows? Let's just go make our own shows. We can keep all the money. Absolutely. Chris, you're you raise a good point. I think that touches on all the, I think you're right. That does, that is an example of Netflix doing that repeat and going back through that cycle all over again. Yeah, they looked at all the changes taking place and so on and so forth decided, like you said, Hey let's do it ourselves. Another example as you were talking to pop them ahead, just considering I'm the wireless guy, but I was even thinking, I was talking to a good friend that was working for BlackBerry back in the heyday of BlackBerry early two thousands, and they were doing a sales kickoff at their headquarters. And okay, maybe this was 12, 13 years ago, whatever. The time that iPhone came on the market and someone raised their hand during the question and answer period with the CEO going, Hey, I saw this press release at Apple, they're launching the app store on their iPhones. What's our response. And the CEO said, that's just a fad. No one needs apps. They just, they need their device for phone calls, texting, and emails. Don't worry about it. And he told me you could, he actually, she told me you could hear like a collective sigh across the, everyone knew he missed the boat. He did not review the macro changes in society. It's I wonder why is that? Is it ego? Is it pride? Or is it just not reading the room? It's unfortunate. Yeah, it is unfortunate, Chris. I think it can boil. I think I, in my humble opinion, I don't have all the answers. Nobody does. But I think in my humble opinion, it could be boiled down to any one of those things or a combination of all of them. It could be a little bit of ego, especially if you're leading a company that's dominating a market or an industry, right? It's like you can get stuck in that dominance identity, and really start to believe that nothing anybody else can do could challenge our dominance, but I think also it, even if ego is totally absent, we're talking about something that is really. Difficult to see it to some extent, it requires you to predict the future, which nobody can successfully do. So to cut all the business leaders in the world, a little bit of slack, it's really difficult to identify, One, how things have already changed. That is difficult in and of itself, even the changes that have already recently taken place. And it's even more difficult to identify, how are things going to be changing over the next, four or five years and next, nine, 10 years. That's, I think, fundamentally challenging because it usually it usually requires a bit of imagination. Yeah, I was gonna say imagination. Yeah. Yeah. And it usually like it introduces a new way of thinking about the world that we haven't had yet. We just haven't had that way of thinking about the world yet. And so you're, we're forced to then think about the world in a totally. new way that may even be in opposition to what we're used to, so I think that's why a lot of companies really struggle with that. So Hendreth, have you seen companies or you have, what's some ideas, if you're a company out there listening and you're like, God, I don't want to be the next block blockbuster, what kind of resources would a organization need to look into if they don't know how to identify. Big changes happening to society and their industry. I'm thinking obviously like a consultant sounds good or some kind of think tank. What other, what ways have you seen organizations address the reviews stage? A few different things, I've seen companies conduct essentially market research, but focused on consumer trends. So I think that is a very useful. Tactic to really just get out there and and identify what are consumers doing what and then juxtapose that to, you can identify some changes that may be taking place in consumer behavior. If you do that over a period of time, say two years and you. Cross reference the beginning with the end, you may be able to identify changing consumer behaviors, right? And so that's one way. Another way I, I'm now currently in, in my in a PhD program. And, it's very research intensive, where they're really training us to, really dig deep into research, peer reviewed research, journaling, scholarly articles, etc. And, I think I'm really beginning to better appreciate, the value of, research experts in seeing these sorts of things, identifying these sorts of things and recommending. Possible or preferential, changes. Companies I think should hire experts who are able to conduct thorough and extensive research and then, not just for its own sake, but then, recommend, changes to the company ways that they can, adopt given the, changing macro Paradox, man, that makes a lot of sense to and I encourage you that look for the experts don't, don't what's the saying? What got you here? Won't keep you here. I hear that all the time and I've seen it, again, I wouldn't, even IBM has a similar story. IBM was the only manufacturer of computers and at one point I read an article where the CEO of IBM, I don't know, in the seventies or something. No one's going to want a computer at their house. That's ridiculous. Pivoting just a little bit back to our original conversation when we first met I, I tell the story on the episode we did. That definitely check the show notes without link if you want to revisit that episode. But, I was doing some, my own little, I'm embarrassed to even call it research, but it was research for me I was looking for some good quotes on efficiency and effectiveness and, again, part of my role as a, an advisor to advisors, a consultant to consultants, I try to help, partners understand. Why that matters and why it's important. So I love a good quote. Who doesn't like a good quote? So anyway, you kept popping up. I've said several times when it came popping up, I got to talk to this guy and you were so gracious with your time even now, so I really appreciate it. But we were talking about E and E efficiency and effectiveness. Talk to us a little bit in our last 10 minutes or so here. Why do you think organizations often have one, but not the other? And is this something they could fix? That's a great question, Chris. Yeah, I feel like this is one of the sort of age old, like dichotomies of business, right? And I know you're really deep into this, Chris. Think there are a few things at play here. Effectiveness is broadly defined as the degree to which something is successful in producing a desired results. Would you agree with that? I do. That's a good one. Okay, so efficiency is, I would say, broadly defined as the ratio of useful work performed by a person. To their total energy expended, right? What are you, are we getting back for what we're putting in? And would roughly agree? Yeah, I do. No that's a much better definition than I use. Go ahead. I think I think organizations in, in, in our, in, in this modern era in our society are largely incentivized to focus on effectiveness. I think we have, various different incentive structures in place to promote, To incentivize effectiveness from companies. Come up with, what we deem to be a desire, a desired result, and those desired results tend to be, or are largely based on what investors view as their desired results. And not necessarily what, the executives or the employees or the customers may identify as their desired results. And I'm not saying that's good or bad. I'm just saying that there's a little bit of conflict there. But in any event, organizations are especially, publicly traded organizations are largely focused on these desired results that are oftentimes superimposed on them by an external economic participant. And again, I'm not suggesting or saying that's bad or good. I'm simply identifying a, I guess you could say a challenge. And so there's two things there. There, there's one the, I think the idea that even if you just focus exclusively on effectiveness, how we are broadly measuring effectiveness just across society, how companies are measuring effectiveness is not always holistic. And to there is, I would argue a, over an outsized emphasis on effectiveness that makes it difficult for companies to focus on efficiency. And, that I think that's a strange kind of dichotomy. A company is, incentivized to produce the desired results of increasing its stock price, for example there are bound to be some efficiencies that are neglected. Or I wouldn't say there are bound to be. There may be some efficiencies that are neglected in pursuit of that desired result. And so I think we want to think about how can we think more systemically to incentivize companies to focus on both effectiveness holistically in and of itself, and efficiency and so to tie in your earlier comments or our earlier comments, Chris, about, waste the efficiency aspect ties right into that, if companies organizations and all economic participants are more efficient in what they're doing, you're naturally going to eliminate the waste factor. And if I think we were to systematically or systemically tie our measurements of success and what we deem to be our desired results to that, we might bridge the gap between efficiency and effectively and effectiveness. Yeah, that's fantastic. Now that was a great explanation and deep dive into that. And I challenge people all the time. Yeah, you can have one without the other and that's not ideal. So we were down to the last few minutes. Last words. Is there anything you want to leave us with? Anything you're working on? You want to share with us? Currently Chris finishing up my My doctoral degree, so really looking forward to that. That's awesome. And really learning a lot and my professors are really amazing. So I'm really thankful for the experience. Got a I'm going to be sitting on a panel in in about four weeks from now actually. I've been awarded a business leadership award by a conference CXO 2. 0. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. You can you can look them up and then I'll be, in addition to receiving the award I'll be sitting on a panel. And discussing a few topics with other panelists. So really looking forward to that, Chris, and hopefully, you can tune in then. Yeah, I love it. Hendrith, I hate that I hate that time is not a God, what's the word I'm looking for? I just lost my word. I wish we had more time. Let's leave it at that. I was going to try. I'm trying to, I'm trying to match your man. I listen to you. It's just so calming and I'm hanging on every word. And I'm and I love that because I feel like I'm the opposite, man. I'm like a live wire. I'm just, and you know what? And different is not bad, right? Difference is different. I love, I just love having these conversations and I need to do it more often with you, but man, I so appreciate it. Great conversation. Check the show notes. I'll have any links that we can share with you on this topic. Definitely a link to the book and as many other books, by the way multiple books to choose from. Hendrith, thanks so much, Marlowe. We appreciate your time today. Yeah. Thank you, Chris. Again, I'm a big fan of your podcast. I watch your shows. And you're, you're numerous guests that you have on and I support everything that you're doing and you're doing a great job. Thank you, honor. Yeah. Thank you so much. And there you go, folks. Another episode of the wireless way. If you heard anything that just hit home, anything you will share with a colleague or a business partner or friend, family member, please do that. That, that's probably the most rewarding thing about putting these kinds of conversations. On a podcast platform is we can share them much like Netflix does with movies. I guess you can't share them. You got to pay for it, but Hey, you're not even paying for this. So it's definitely worth what you're paying. I think really appreciate you guys. Check out this episode, check the show notes and we'll see you next time on the wireless way.