AI in Your Cup of IoT: Stirring Up Innovation with a Dash of Humor, fun conversation with Taylor Costello and McKenzie Maness from Epic iO.

The Shift to Channel-First Strategy with Epic IO's McKenzie Maness and Taylor Costello

In this episode of The Wireless Way, host Chris Whitaker is joined by McKenzie Maness and Taylor Costello from Epic IO. Together, they discuss the importance of a channel-first strategy, trends in the technology sector, and share valuable insights on how trusted advisors can better serve their clients. Learn about the new Wireless Window solution and how it adds significant value for partners and their customers. Additionally, McKenzie and Taylor share personal stories, career journeys, and their thoughts on the evolving landscape of tech sales. Stay tuned for an engaging discussion that blends professional advice with a touch of humor.

00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:48 Meet McKenzie Maness
01:41 McKenzie's Journey into Technology
04:12 Meet Taylor Costello
04:42 Taylor's Unique Path to Technology
09:23 Changes in the Channel
15:11 Epic IO's Channel-First Approach
20:35 Channel Culture and Transitioning Trust Advisors
21:36 Expertise and Supplier Selection
23:16 Expanding Sales and Customer Stickiness
26:19 Winning with Advanced Technologies
31:06 Private Cellular Networks and AIoT
35:42 Introducing Wireless Window
39:03 Final Thoughts and Book Recommendations

More on Epic io

Transcript

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 0:00

Welcome to another episode of The Wireless Way. I'm your host, Chris Whitaker, and yes. Yeah. I'm so grateful that you're here. You're back. Whether you're a first time listener or you've been listening for a long time, I'm grateful for that. Have a lot of fun on this show, and today's gonna be no different. I'm also grateful for my two guests. Yes, if you've been listening for a while, normally it's one. But this topic was so important. We had to bring in the big gun. So I have McKenzie, Maness and Taylor Costello with me from Epic io a fantastic. Another fantastic supplier I get to work with through my day job at Intelysis. But I've known them for years and we go back a little way, so we're gonna be. Talking about that, and I have a, it's gonna be a great show. But before we get into that, also a little different. I, instead of me reading the bio, it's boring. We'll start. McKenzie, tell us a little bit about yourself. How did you get here?

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 0:52

Yeah, absolutely. So first of all, happy to be here. Yeah, so my channel journey started at A

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 0:58

I.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 0:58

which is a little bit unique. But I spent a few years there supporting the supplier management team. So I had about a hundred suppliers that I supported across the board, cloud security. Mobility ai, IOT. And Epic IO was actually one of those suppliers. And so I came over here just over two years ago and now I'm our director of channel development here. So I help support all of our TSD relationships. I help create new partner content help our channel team be the best that they can be, and support all the way from top to bottom for that. So

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 1:27

And I will say, you do a great job at that. I've

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 1:31

A.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 1:31

that

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 1:32

herding.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 1:33

she's, yeah. Yeah. That's the star. Yeah, I just said that.'cause Taylor's on actually. No, I'm just kidding. But actually I do have another, I do have a question for you though. So at what point in your career did you go, I really this technology thing. And by the way, before you even answer, just know. Three quarters of the people I asked that to, they go, I actually, I had no intention of ever being a technology. I just kinda stumbled into it. I'm just curious how what brought you in to being in this world we're in of technology.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 1:59

Yeah, funnily enough, I never planned on tech and I never even really planned on the sales side of things. So I went to school, I had my MBA with an emphasis in marketing. That was always the plan, like plan to do brand consulting social media, all that fun stuff. And I got to know Amy Bailey really well, who some of you might know. She's been in the channel for a really long time. She was my mentor during my MBA program. And she got me in the door. I did an internship at Ingram Micro. Really enjoyed it. And then was looking for a job a few years back and she recommended the TSD role that I took. And it was a whole new world to me. The supplier management side was all new to me. But turns out I came in and I loved it because that job really is just managing relationships. I. I love people. I love to talk, and that's really what I get to do all day long now, is meet new people, make connections connect them with our team. And so it was never really about the tech for me. That's an added bonus that I've learned to love over the years, but it's really just the people and I think that's what's so unique about our channel is. It really is a big family. It's big, but it's small at the same time. So I love that every event is like a high school reunion and you get to run into everybody and catch up. And so I think it's really more about the people than the tech for me. So

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 3:04

Man. See, I'm so glad I asked that. I had no idea the connection with Amy. Yeah, again, Bailey, a former guest of the Wireless Way. Go back and check it out. A lot of TSD experience obviously did amazing work there and now has the own company unusual. Unusually unusual marketing, and of course the channel Marketing association she and some others lead that. Yeah, that, that is a great, that's really cool to hear. One one other question though. I got out. I love that. Through your MBA program and your formal training, how much are you using of that today in this role?

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 3:36

I think it's a lot of the basic skills of, I have my BA in business as well, so I think it's a lot of the basic skills that are nice to know. I probably would've learned along the way. But really I think. The value of it is the people. One of my closest friends also works in our team now that I met during my MBA program. Angelica Rivera, she's our channel marketing manager,

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 3:54

man.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 3:55

amazing. And then again, I would've never met Amy and I wouldn't be sitting here now. So I think it's less honestly, about what I learned. I think it sped up my process and I took a few years off of a learning curve. But really it's just the connections that I made along the way is really where I think I got the most value out of it. But.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 4:10

That's great. Thanks for sharing all that. And, yeah. Now Taylor Costello, the man with the face made for radio per him. He said that himself, folks. I did not say that, but a tall, handsome man. Taylor, tell tell us your story a little bit. What are you doing today and how did you get here?

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 4:27

Sure. Thanks Chris. First off for having us I have a rather unique story believe it or not in college,

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 4:33

minute show, by the way. Just letting you

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 4:36

It all.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 4:38

We can go 45. We can go 45, right? Go ahead.

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 4:42

No believe it or not in college I received A-A-B-F-A in painting and sculpture, right? It was my plan then to become an art professor, right? I'm naturally gifted in the arts. I never really saw myself in sales or technology. Back then I was, frankly an introvert, right? I lived in a studio for six years and. Once I graduated I moved from Minnesota to Seattle with a$128,000 in debt. And I remember the first bill hit my mailbox and I was like, what am I gonna do? How am I gonna pay off this debt? And I I saw an ad in the newspaper, this is again, 20 plus years ago. I saw an ad in the newspaper that was looking for salespeople, a hundred percent commission. Make as much as you want. It was advertised, right? And I quickly learned that because of my creative mindset maybe being more introverted than extroverted, that end users really wanted to do business with me.'cause I wasn't your stereotypical salesperson, right? Looking back in my childhood, I never thought I would be in technology, never thought I'd be in sales. I thought I was gonna be this wacky art professor doing some really interesting stuff. But here I am 20, 20 plus years later, still loving it some someday, Chris. Someday I'll get someday when I'm retired I'll be living in a studio painting and sculpting.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 6:16

ask you how much of your form education you're using today?'cause I'm guessing not much. Is there anything you take back from that other than. I don't know that having an eye for art.

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 6:25

It all kidding aside, I, I feel and McKenzie can attest to this, I feel like I use the creativeness of my brain on a day-to-day basis. It seems like almost every day I am hitting Mackenzie with a wacky idea and she's like. Where did you come up with that? McKenzie is naturally creative as well. So the harmony that we achieve together having a creative mindset I feel like really benefits the partner community benefits epic io as our employer and benefits the TSD community as well.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 7:00

That's very interesting. Again, what a great story. I did not know that either. So that's, I've known you guys for years and it's just, it's amazing what you ask me, just what you learn when you ask the right questions. I think there's a sales lesson in there too, somewhere asking the right questions.

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 7:16

this.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 7:17

Ugh,

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 7:17

That's right.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 7:18

missed opportunity.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 7:20

Gosh, no, that, that's through your, through the schooling and all, really never really thought yourself as a techie. Was you ever like a gadget guy or, was it always just more about the arts and when you say art, are I hear you say sculpting or was it what type of art was it

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 7:35

Painting and sculpture. So I have a,

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 7:37

sculpture? Did you have a preference or was that kinda like a package deal? You did both or?

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 7:42

it wasn't a two for one special.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 7:44

Did you get like a discount for learning both or?

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 7:47

We're gonna wave, it did take me six years to graduate with a BFA. They said, Hey, if you're gonna take on sculpting in addition to painting, we'll wave that six year for you. So it was a 2 1 2 for one special. No. I'll get in a side, Chris. My I favor painting. And then my secondary would be sculpture.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 8:06

Wow. Now I, so a couple of weeks ago I was in New York. My son lives in Brooklyn and we went to the Met and oh my gosh. I don't have any of the skills you discussed, but, or I described, but but no I definitely have a appreciation to think that. can make these things. It's just because I don't feel like I have that in me. And in fact, boo Verde, my colleague that handles cloud and ai, he did a great talk at one of our AI masterclasses where he just he took the example. I'm gonna totally mess this up, so if you're listening, boo. I'm sorry. But of the change in art, how art was done around the 14 hundreds, the medieval times, how things were flat and looked, everybody looked like they're two dimensional and, what happened to where art became looking like a photograph almost. And there's some kind of concave lens or something. He got real technical about it and someone studied all this and told, got the guy's name. But yeah, I'll have to share that with you. You probably really appreciate that. And Boo's a great guy. He's, he loves history and art as well. This is interesting. We're all techies and we all have our different backgrounds, which is great. Going, speaking of backgrounds, obviously Taylor you've been at this a good while now. A good time. You got your channel chops on here. I'm really curious to know your thoughts on this. We're seeing a lot of changes in the channels. So from your perspective, what's the biggest changes you've seen throughout your time in the channel?

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 9:29

Chris, I'm gonna answer that with a story real quick. So back in 2025 I worked for a compensation analyst organization. It was a startup

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 9:39

Back in 2025.

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 9:41

back in, I'm sorry 2005, 2005.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 9:44

That's a difference. I was like, I thought you'd been doing this for a while, bro. What? What you talking about? Just last week. No, that's good. Okay. I'm not gonna make this easy on you, man. You're doing a great job though.

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 9:57

So in, in 2005, worked for the startup really selling compensation. And I started off in direct sales. And halfway through my tenure at that organization, I stumbled across HR consultants. And these HR consultants would work with comp departments and HR departments. To advise them what to pay their employees based on skillset, tenure experience, certifications, et cetera. And that was a pivotal time in my career.'cause I realized these consultants had something that I didn't have as a direct salesperson. They had the relationships. Then I realized that I had the product set right. I had, we had as a brand we filled the void of what the consultants were needing to advise their end users. And ever since that day, I've been working with consultants, VARs, MSPs, TAs, et cetera. And what's interesting, Chris, when I look back on the last 20 years. When I think about my early day tenure supporting the partner community, it was a very reactive time. We are reacting to the quotes coming in, right? We're jumping on demos reactive, right? We're building paperwork reactive to their needs. We're reacting to provisioning and billing inquiries. And when you look at the channel today. It's polar opposite, right? It's polar opposite. Meaning we are proactive. Anyone within the supplier organization that supports the channel, they should have a proactive mindset. And that's that makes me remember about eight, nine years ago, we hired a channel manager that was new to channel management. He called me Chris, he called me, I don't know, a week, two weeks into his gig. And he said, Taylor, you've been doing this a long time. I think everyone thinks that I'm old, Chris. I think that's a commonality here. He called me and said, he called me and said, Hey, Taylor, you've been doing this a long time. What advice do you have for me? And my advice to him was, you work for the partners. You don't work for your employer. You'll work for the partners, right? And once you have that mindset coupled with that proactive mindset, you're gonna run in tandem with that partner. And that is the most magical thing that I've seen in the last 20 years supporting the partner community is that reactiveness to now a proactive mind share, whether it's a TSD or down to the TA level. Now it'd be interesting to hear from Mackenzie and Mackenzie, your experience, you've worked for A TSD as a supplier manager, right? Like what, what has changed in your tenure of supporting, whether it's suppliers or the TSDs?

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 13:00

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's interesting. Even just within the last, let's say five years I think when I came in, it was a very cookie cutter model of you do X, Y, and Z. That's it. There's no other expectations and you'll do fine. But the reality is even since I've. Been in this channel, which is about five years, I think there's a tremendous amount of competition that wasn't necessarily there before. So you have to do more. Trusted advisors are expecting more from you. It's not pay your commissions on time. And. up, go to events. It's more than that. It's truly a partnership. And I think it's good that they're expecting that it's our job to give them the resources and the tools and the support they need to be able to sell us. But I do think because there are so many players in this space now, you do have to do a lot to stand out. Outside of the typical MDF or the typical pay to play, whatever it is I think there's a lot of expectations on suppliers that weren't there before to go above and beyond, whether it's providing resources or the way that even your company is stacked to be a really channel first company. I think there's a lot more weight behind that now than there was even a few years ago. So it's been really interesting to watch that. On the TSD side, like I said, I supported about a hundred suppliers and you could really tell. The ones that realized that and started to make the shift and to let me be a genuine partner for you. Let me be proactive, not just wait for you to reach out to me with a quote. Those are the ones that have, I've really seen succeed over the last couple of years. And I think that's a big thing that we do at Epic. That's why I was drawn to come here, is I saw that before I was even here of. We are making them the priority. Like you said, we work for those partners. We don't work for Epic, we do, but at the end of the day, we work for those partners. I think that's something we've done here as well, is just going above and beyond to be a partner and support them in a way that just really wasn't expected or even the norm even a few years ago. So it's been

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 14:46

God. No, those are great observations. I definitely wanna. that a little bit further. Yeah I echo that. I agree with both of you. But yeah, in the last, several years we're seeing this transition in the channel. Things have been changing obviously for the better. For us in the channel. I feel major companies, changing their go-to market strategy with, used to be heavy direct. Now it's heavy channel. Of course, these companies are calling themselves channel first companies. You mentioned that tell me a little bit more about, for, especially from Epic IO perspective, what does that mean and what are you guys doing to to set yourself apart and add value to the, to these partners that, that we all work for?

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 15:24

Yeah.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 15:25

Who wants to take that?

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 15:26

I was gonna say today. Sure. I'll start off and you can jump in. I think first and foremost, something that gives us an advantage is Epic io formerly Broadsky. We've been in the channel for 20 years. It's who we are. We never were direct. And I think that gives us a bit of an advantage'cause we never had to pivot. There was never that realization of, oh, this actually could be really successful. It's been a part of our business model, so every single team that we have has that channel first. Mentality, genuinely from engineering, post-sales, pre-sales, account management, even our C levels those that have come even from companies that perhaps weren't channel first. We have really taken the time to bring them to events to be like, you've got to get this, you have to see it for yourself and understand. So it's really refreshing and I think that does give us. An advantage of from C-level all the way down to every person on every team. We all have that channel first approach and we know that it's more than just paying commissions on time, paying your MDF, showing up at events. It's things like, something we've done this last year is creating sales tools. A lot of partners are starting to. So maybe before it was they only sold network, they only sold CAS, and now they're realizing, okay, I can sell CAS, but I also need to sell cloud and cybersecurity and backup internet and whatever else. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they're an expert and they can't be in every single thing that they're selling. So what can we do to make working with me or with Taylor or with Epic Easy? So it's writing email campaigns for them, writing super simple to understand solution briefs. Offering training, making sure that our engineers are available to jump on calls with them, to jump on calls with their customers and really supporting them in tandem that entire process of the second they send us a quote, they're getting that white glove service, which is cheesy. I hate to even use that'cause I think people say it that they don't mean it, but it truly is every step of the way from. You wanna hit up cold leads or you wanna have a conversation with a customer that doesn't understand POTS or backup internet or starlink, we're here to help. So I think that's a huge thing that we've done is just providing them with assets, with resources, with training and enablement. And even let's say for example, events, I think before it was all TSDs, it was sponsor their events and there's value there, you have to be there. But we've even come alongside advisors and said, Hey. Bring some customers, we'll come and we'll do the pitch for you. Bring 15 customers, we'll buy dinner, we'll buy lunch and let us pitch for 10 minutes. Those that you think may be a good fit for us and supporting them in their own business models that they've begun to develop as they've continued to grow their businesses. So I think those are just a few things. Taylor, I don't know if you have anything

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 18:00

Yeah.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 18:01

there.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 18:01

Before you do Taylor I have comic relief. This is my job as a host. I gotta insert a joke occasionally when you said white glove, immediately I was like, yeah, but then you said, it's appropriate term. I was like what else could we say? And I think I came up with something. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I think it's cool. Michael Jackson glove.

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 18:23

Oh.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 18:23

glove. Come on, man. It's pool, it's shiny and you only need one. I, yeah. Woo. I don't, I give you a Michael Jackson glove experience. Is that, would that sell? I don't know, but I,

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 18:36

Immediately get the eye roll. Everybody says white glove.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 18:39

yeah,

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 18:39

to even say it, but like you said, it's, Michael What we're using from now

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 18:42

yeah. I gotta figure out a way I, yeah. Michael m the MJ glove, I don't know. I think. I just thought of it as I, Jeff, if I can use that, the MJ glove and see if anyone gets it. But anyway,

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 18:52

We

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 18:52

I agree.

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 18:53

might.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 18:55

Yeah, I don't know. That's what I'm saying. Can we say that? It's a compliment. It's everyone who doesn't like the MJ glove. I don't know. Yeah I, okay. I'll keep working on that. I'll keep working on it.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 19:05

Yeah.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 19:05

I'll

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 19:06

McKenzie you said something that I want double down on that I don't think, I don't think a lot of suppliers

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 19:12

slang. Double down and

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 19:14

double down.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 19:15

Just go ahead and double click on that.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 19:16

Yeah.

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 19:17

We're gonna double click. I think it's very easy for suppliers to say that we're a channel first organization. I. Okay. Very easy to say, and they might mean it Chris, right? Wholeheartedly. They might mean it, but to really be a channel first organization, McKensey, nailed it, right? Every department needs to be in lockstep within their peer department, within the TSD, within the TA community. That's engineering, that's operation, that's C level, that's marketing, that's account management, et cetera. And once you have that lockstep harmony, it accomplished two things. One channel first. Okay. Two, it produces greater dividends revenue, the tighter the two parties are within each department, and once you have that figured out, you're gonna see revenues create like a hockey stick.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 20:15

No, I think if you're listening and you are a supplier and what does channel first mean to you? I think that's a good exercise. Especially when you mention all the other departments.'cause you're, I've seen great technology with a great channel team. I. Fell because marketing wasn't behind it, or finance didn't understand to pay commissions and clawed back things that shouldn't be clawed back or whatever. You're right, it's gotta be, it's gotta be through the culture. It's gotta be a channel culture even. I totally love that whole conversation around, channel first, what does it mean, channel culture, et cetera. But pivoting just a little bit wanna get back to, your day job and what you guys are promoting for us and working with the partners, what advice do you have for the trust advisors that are, trying to make that transition? And before you answer that, I just wanna add a little bit to that. Even in the events the TSDs are doing, we're trying to train'em on all this stuff. There's a lot out there. And even here, even in my role, I'm starting to see, light bulbs are starting to come on more.'Cause what's the saying? If you were gonna grow your business double digit in revenue. And you're, and you don't sell anything new. You gotta sell a lot more of the same stuff, right? Because, some of these things, fiber and ucas, the spiffs are going away. It's a race to the bottom, so you gotta add more to it. I like to hear what are you seeing in the market? How are you seeing these partners transition? Are some a natural, are some of'em resisting? What's going on in terms of, the making that transition? Any advice you have?

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 21:36

I think my first advice would be, there's 300 suppliers plus in the channel, right? You don't have to be an expert at everything. I've heard people talk about this over the last 12, 18 months, that you really wanna be an expert amongst all this technology stack. That's nearly impossible, right? My advice is whether it's uc, cc, traditional wan, cyber cloud computing, you name that vertical. Pick two or three suppliers that you trust that are really leaning into you, that are running a practice around your business. And run lockstep within two or three suppliers in each vertical, uc, CC wan, wireless, ai, iot, et cetera. Mackenzie got anything that you wanna double down on that?

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 22:27

I totally agree. I think it's super important. I do think you have to be educated. I think you have to be able to connect the dots of. If you're selling CCAS, great. What I would do is go straight to whoever your TSD engineer is that best, or whoever you trust and say, okay, if I'm selling this product, what else should I automatically be adding on? And then identifying, like Taylor said, okay, what are, if you're great in CCAS, here's the three verticals that really align well with that. That every single conversation I have that I'm normally selling C CCAS, I say, that's awesome. Do you want fries with that of. You should also be adding backup internet if you're selling circuits or whatever it looks like. Be educated of where can you expand, where it makes sense for you, where you're not getting maybe entirely out of your comfort zone yet. Find the dots that connect and start there. And land and expand that way.'cause I think, like Taylor said, I actually think it was you, Christ of, you just gotta sell a lot more of the same thing if you're sticking with one product, but chances are. You've got an entire customer base of customers that are really happy working with you, and there's probably a whole lot of other solutions that they need that you're able to provide for them. If you can figure out how to connect those dots and then find those suppliers, like Taylor said, that are the expert, know enough to be dangerous. Let them do the heavy lifting. Bring their engineers in, have them do all the crazy stuff. Just know the right questions to ask to open the door and then pull those people in to support you, because that's our job is to do that part. So totally agree with what you said, Taylor, of finding a handful in each vertical that aligns with what you do and landing and expanding from there.

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 23:58

You absolutely nailed it, Mackenzie. We. We often see partners getting excited about net new logos. And that's exciting, right? Like we're all salespeople. It's exciting to grab a net new logo, right? But there are gold in the hills of your base of customers that partners, I feel are walking away from right. Mackenzie you said this right? You, you sell uc seats, right? You should automatically include pots, right? Pots is going to reduce, you're gonna, you're gonna save the customer money and you're gonna be allocate that funds to whatever technology stack you're trying to sell'em, right? There should be a, do you want fries with that mentality within your base? Because the more that you sell to your base. The greater stickiness you have. McKenzie and I were talking to our president yesterday about the subject of do you want fries with that? And McKenzie, he said something really interesting to us, right? His first comment was, think about Apple, right? Chris, think about your first Apple purchase. It was probably in. And Chris, I don't know this, so I'm gambling here. Hopefully it doesn't backfire on me. I'm willing to bet that you don't have one Apple product. I'm willing to bet that you have greater than one Apple product.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 25:21

Oh my gosh. Do by the way, it was an iPod actually.

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 25:25

Okay?

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 25:25

the I the iPod? There you go. That goes back. Oh. Yeah. No, you're right man. We got dozens. Yeah,

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 25:30

Yes.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 25:30

an Apple family for sure. Yeah.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 25:32

I am

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 25:33

No.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 25:34

top customer in my keyboard, my mouse,

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 25:37

I.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 25:37

laptop,

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 25:38

Now.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 25:38

watch.

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 25:40

Now think about that right

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 25:42

Yeah.

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 25:42

app. Apple has created stickiness, right? They have reduced churn. The more products that you have within a supplier, the greater or the less churn you are gonna have with your end user. Now, let's flip that model to the TA and the end user, right? You sell an end user, just one technology step. Your percentage of churn is pretty darn high, right? But if you sell that end user 10 15 product stacks right now, you have true stickiness and your churn is practically gonna be nothing.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 26:16

Wow. No I love this topic'cause that's what this is all about. In, in the area of, just going back to the root of all this, the I and iot, that the internet, the connectivity of it all I'd like to get your thoughts on, where are people winning and what, what trends and opportunities are most common. And even another thought before you answer that, I feel like there, there's a standard offerings that a traditional telecom that everyone's selling, right? But then there's the advanced technologies, which is what we're talking, I we spend a lot of time talking about. I'm very focused on advanced technologies. These are the fries, if you will. Selling connectivity, everyone's doing that. And you need to keep doing that because all this stuff doesn't work without the connectivity. So there's that. Where are the, where are people winning? And just as important where do you think trusted advisors are missing the opportunity to win?

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 27:06

Sure. I guess I'll take that, right? I, Chris I said it earlier, right? Let's just pick on POTS for an example, right? We know. What's happening with pots, right? They're pricing themselves side of the market, right? The imex are on purpose, right? So you can take that reduction of spend and apply it to whatever technology initiative you are trying to sell to your end user. Second bullet point, when you think about wan, right? Like Chris I, I spent my days, I spent a lot of tenure at Integra, right? And we would sell'em a DS three circuit or bonded T ones, and then the end user would want that secondary circuit. And at that point in time, the secondary circuit was a cable circuit. Right?'cause that was your only option. If you think about redundancy, it's all coming into the building within the same highway or the same conduit, right? So what type of backup plan is that? Really right now, if you think about 3G, 4G, 5G, 5G now could run businesses, right? With, especially with the unlimited plans that you know selfishly for Epic io a little plug here, we.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 28:13

Well, I.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 28:14

By the way,

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 28:15

By the plan. We have unlimited plans with every carrier, right? So we can, if you have a hundred locations, we can look at each location and determine who the best carrier is and apply the right data package, right?

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 28:28

All right.

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 28:28

Another trend that we're seeing is, you know these, when you order a fiber circuit, you know they'll tell you the due date's. Wednesday, 90% of the time, they don't hit the due date. Customers panicking, partners panicking. Everyone's panicking.'cause you need internet to run a business. We can get internet next day to the end user, which is very powerful, right? Just think about that, Chris you've been in technology forever, like internet next day to the end user. That is unbelievable technology, right? And then Chris, I also go to, you think computer vision, right? If you look at businesses I'm willing to say that 90% of businesses have cameras. I'm also willing to say 80% of that 90% have dumb cameras. And I realize that's an elementary term, but I'm gonna use it again. They have dumb cameras. Those dumb cameras. Say it again.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 29:26

What

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 29:27

They

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 29:27

do they have?

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 29:28

have dumb cameras, Mackenzie.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 29:29

They're dumb. They're not smart. They're not smart. don't have a, they don't have a, they don't have a, an art degree

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 29:37

They don't, all they are doing is recording an event, right? Fast forward the business owner maybe next day reviews the footage right, calls the police. Nothing happens. Nothing happens. It goes back to what we talked about in the beginning It's reactive right now. What if we can take those dumb cameras and play IQ to'em and make'em smart? That is more proactive versus reactive, right? So I think where there is a miss or a huge opportunity for the partner community is that void as it pertains to cameras, because there's not a lot of focus on it from a proactive perspective, Mackenzie.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 30:22

of that too, sorry, not to cut you off, but I think AI is the new hot topic, but in our channel specifically, it's all the CA in the ucas ai, it's the chat bots. It's the chat GPT, and they think that, and that's where their knowledge is stopped right now. And the computer vision side is so interesting and there's so many different things that you can do with it, like the proactive security, environmental monitoring, whatever that looks like. And I think it's something that they are really leaving on the table that we're gonna see a progressive in uptake in the next. Year or so, maybe two. Because it's just not really getting talked about very often. I think AI got sucked up by all the big ucas CCAS players,

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 31:00

God.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 31:01

great. We need that too. But I don't think it's getting much attention yet, but I think people are starting to notice. And then the other one, Taylor, I don't know if you wanna talk about is PCN has started to get a lot more traction with us as.

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 31:12

Yeah, I was gonna, I was gonna ping this to Chris. I'm gonna throw Chris the curve ball here, right? Chris, you live in the upper echelon as it pertains to technology, right? People go to you and look up to you because you're looking into the future, right? You're the 2.0 versus everyone else is the 1.0. So my question to you is what trends are you seeing? That other people should focus on because you live in a different layer per se and have a different focus from a day-to-day perspective

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 31:44

I think everyone should just buy from Epic io. That's the trend I'm seeing. Oh, wait, okay.

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 31:51

gift.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 31:51

Yeah. you guys are not paying for this interview for the record. Yeah. No, that's a good one. I, that's why we're having this conversation, by the way. I, another a kudos to you guys. I feel like it was four, maybe five years ago. I don't know who came up with it, but I think I first heard from Skyler, one of your colleagues, the phrase A IOT. Know The smooshing together of AI and iot, because that's what it is. And AI is driving all this. Back to even the dumb cameras, there was, they call, they used to call'em smart devices. They could take some information and make a decision on and off open close. But now they're not only, being proactive and, make automating manual task, but they're making decisions and delivering actionable data. All of this requires, some logic and machine learning that's all a part of ai. So first of all, yeah, we're quick. Do you guys remember when Ai OT became a, was that a, is that an epic thing or? I don't.

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 32:50

This.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 32:51

Yes, the dark ages we like to call it,

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 32:54

Tenure Iil, but we,

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 32:57

That was a long time ago, five Changed in five years.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 33:00

I

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 33:00

yeah. We do have to give credit to, to Mr. Skyler Stewart for that naming convention. It's funny, Chris we need another acronym in this space, and we created one, but we realized AI comma iot was too hard to say or he realized it. So he just sandwiched'em together.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 33:20

a

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 33:20

But it makes sense.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 33:21

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And you're right. We did an AI masterclass recently and I was so excited because we included all four of the advanced technologies. Yes. CX. CCaaS, and UCaaS kinda led the charge. Those are all very, everyone, every time you call a one 800 number, you're probably talking to some kind of bot or whatnot. And then, even how it applies to, cloud and cybersecurity. And of course, I came along and said, Hey, there's a lot we could talk about here. And AI and ai, o, ot,

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 33:46

Oh

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 33:47

Especially when it comes to cameras and facial recognition and weapon detection and even. a lot of the sensors and smart agriculture, smart buildings, smart cities mean there's so many things we can go into, but yes I what you were going to asking about private cellular networks. I think that is something that should be looked at by more partners that are working with clients that have large. Campuses, large buildings warehouses, especially warehouses using robotics. Wifi just really wasn't designed to provide connectivity to the things that are moving around and that can't have latency or, that whole sticky client issue. There's a lot there to talk about private cellular networks, and it's not for everybody. It's not gonna be for your, small mom and pops and whatnot. For those of you that are working with larger enterprise clients or with a large air, whether it be a campus or warehouse, manufacturing floor healthcare, a lot of hospitals,

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 34:40

One of our biggest clients for PCN is a traveling, and I won't say who, but a

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 34:45

yeah.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 34:45

entertainment company that streams video live. They have, you've been to a baseball game or whatever, and you can't even post on Instagram because it's so cl, it's so crowded on those. Servers. And so one of our biggest PCN customers is an entertainment company that uses it when they travel, it moves with them and they're able to communicate for security. All of those stands think like the point of sale systems for popcorn and your drinks and everything else all have to be connected'cause nobody carries cash anymore. And then also that live streaming of whatever they're showing. They do a lot of live stream straight onto the air. And so that's another one. That's a great opportunity too. Events and entertainment.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 35:24

To answer your question Taylor there, there's probably a lot, I would predict. But I think you guys are the reason you're on the show here.'cause I think you're touching on where we're going and you have been for some time and that, that was at the DNA of Epic io. So for partners, if you're listening, you haven't worked with Epic io, highly recommend it. Check the show notes, I'll have links and whatnot. But before we close though, I do wanna ask you about a recently launched new solution that EPIC IO has in the market wireless window. Quickly walk me through the highlights. What do TAs need to know and how does this add value for them and their customers?

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 35:57

So

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 35:58

I.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 35:58

something we've been working on since before I got here. They've been working on this, so over two years now. Really what it comes down to is wireless window is a platform that gives customers and partners visibility. So a lot of times, like Taylor said, if you've got those multi-location businesses, it's. Likely that they've got T-Mobile, they've got some on Verizon, they've got at and t. This is a platform that lets them see their sims. It lets them see their usage all in one place. Super clean, super easy to use. It gives them visibility. If it's looking like they're gonna go over for the month or let's say for the last three months in a row they have gone over, it gives them that insight to say, Hey, perhaps we need to bump you to a higher plan. To really, again, back to the proactive to. Give them the visibility, anomaly detection. We had a customer come on last year that had. A tremendous amount of sims and they weren't using half of them, and they just didn't know Know what was where. And we were able to save'em a ton of money the second they walked in the door because we were able to identify, this is what you're using, this what's, this is what hasn't been used. And let's say the last six months, we're gonna shut'em all off. If we find something we need to turn back on, great. But it was an immediate cost savings for them. And again, just really gives'em that visibility to be able to make those business decisions without having to do a lot of

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 37:10

Okay.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 37:10

or trying to Frankenstein together what they're using over here and over there. All in a really easy to use platform. I don't know if you

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 37:17

Wow.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 37:17

Taylor.

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 37:19

It stems from this whole conversation today, right? End users are getting smarter and smarter each and every year, right? They want more and more control each and every year, right? The days of, Hey, let me just call my suppliers or figure out what I have, they'll say Those days are done, right? End users want the control, they want the visibility. They wanna be able to predict. Cost from a it spend right in this wireless window gives end users that, that power and that control to have a hundred percent visibility so they don't have to rely on suppliers reaching out to their account manager to be able to give'em the data set.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 37:58

Yep.

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 37:58

goes back to that proactive versus reactive, how we started this conversation, This shift, whether it's from a partner community, a TSD community, or an end user community, we are seeing the shift of reactive to proactive of having a little bit more control, whether that's wan uc, cc, ai, I, ot, wireless, et cetera. End users want control and want portals within their tech stack.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 38:28

Is this in your brand folder or your online have you added that to the marketing in the box yet

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 38:32

They have been updated already, so they're

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 38:35

that Oh, great. By the way, I thought you made that marketplace just for me, and now I'm learning It's for everybody. Everybody, all partners have access.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 38:45

my, so my soul

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 38:46

Yeah, I thought when you gave me all wow, that's really nice of you. You made this so easy. I got my own link. I got all this material.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 38:52

Yeah we're

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 38:53

and

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 38:53

use your portal is what

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 38:55

okay. That's fair. I like that. I

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 38:57

If they have any questions, Chris' Cell phone number is.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 39:00

Yeah. Yeah, right. Go to the wireless way.net. Yeah. Any last words? Any, anything else you want to drop on us before we wrap up?

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 39:09

I don't I don't know.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 39:11

Are you reading a good book yet? Are you reading? Are either one of you are reading a good book or have a quote you can share? Gimme something man.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 39:19

what book I have been told to read for years and I've rolled my eyes and ignored it, but I'm finally starting it and it's actually very good so far is the one, I think it's by Dale Carnegie and it's the How to Win Friends and Influence People. I thought forever that it was just over hyped. I've been told to read it probably since I was 18 and haven't and so far I'm actually pretty intrigued. It's been a good book, so that's what

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 39:40

No, that's a good one.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 39:41

in

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 39:41

That is a good one. Oh, very good. No, you can never do that enough, by the way.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 39:46

yeah. Taylor doesn't read. You don't need to ask him.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 39:49

What's your favorite picture book?

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 39:53

Maybe we can end on this. So I recently went to the doctor and my wife was after me. And Chris, as you alluded to in the beginning of this podcast, I'm pretty old. So I finally go to the doctor and, he has, he takes my blood, he does all the normal stuff and he's I'll be back. So I'm standing in his room and he taps me on the shoulder

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 40:14

But wait, did you have the gown on?

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 40:17

I did not have it down

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 40:18

Okay. I'm just curious

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 40:19

close.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 40:19

soon. As I said that, I was like, that's a visual we don't need, but Okay. Go ahead.

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 40:23

So he

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 40:24

the

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 40:24

kept me on the shoulder and I look backwards and I see him and I, he's holding a book and I look at the book and I look at the title, and the title says How Not to Die. So that is the book that I am reading, and it's a, it is a book all about nutrition, right? What do you put it in? Body makes your body. But I found it very alarming frankly that what he tapped me on the shoulder, didn't say anything, and just hands me over this book that is titled How Not to Die.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 40:55

That's his job. His job is to help you, not least, the die prematurely. God, that two good books. Fantastic conversation, great company. I'm so glad we were able to get this together. Thanks for joining me today, guys. I really appreciate it.

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 41:08

no problem. Thanks for having

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 41:10

I

mckenzie-maness_1_05-15-2025_131313: 41:10

This was

taylor-costello_1_05-15-2025_131314: 41:10

Thanks Chris.

chris_1_05-15-2025_151313: 41:11

You bet. And I appreciate it as well. So there you go folks. Another episode of The Wireless Way. And as always, if you heard something you like, you wanna share with a colleague. Please send it to them. Share this. And also check out the wireless way.net. There's a contact us button. You can send me any feedback or requests you have on guests or topics. I really appreciate you checking this out and we'll see you next time on the Wireless Way.