Deepfakes, Data Breaches, and Digital Trust: A Conversation with Paul Velusamy, CEO of VerifiNow

Show Notes

Welcome to another episode of The Wireless Way! Host Chris Whitaker sits down with Paul Velusamy, founder and CEO of VerifiNow, to discuss the future of identity verification in a digital world. Paul shares his journey from tech and marketing leadership to building a platform that secures critical digital touchpoints across healthcare, banking, and customer service.

In this episode:

• How the pandemic accelerated the need for secure remote identity verification
• The rise of AI-driven fraud and the importance of liveness detection
• Real-world examples from higher education, banking, and e-commerce
• Balancing security with user experience
• Mental health awareness and the value of open conversations in tech
• Actionable advice for organizations: “Verify first, trust later”

Resources & Mentions:

•  VerifiNow's Website
• More on Paul
• Cell Phones for Soldiers: repurpose old mobile devices for veterans
• The Wireless Way website: thewirelessway.net
• Previous episode with Brooke, mental health nurse practitioner

Connect:

• Contact Chris or Paul for more information or support
• Recycle old mobile devices to help veterans in need
• Always verify!

Transcript

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 0:04

Welcome to another episode of The Wireless Way. I'm your host, Chris Whitaker. I'm blessed and fortunate and lucky to have great guests. Today's a really unique episode. Now talk a lot about iot and mobility and technology and advanced technologies. This one fits right in, and it's in the top. It's in an area that I think a lot of, you're gonna find it very interesting. I'm glad you're here listening. I'm even, very grateful for Paul, Sami. he's my guest. He's the founder and CEO of verify now, pioneering platform, dedicated to securing critical digital touchpoints across healthcare, banking, customer service. based in Pasadena, California, Paul drives identity verification innovation through real-time biometric tools, supporting voice, video, mobile, and web channels. With nearly three decades of leadership in tech and marketing. Paul previously founded, Synergy Labs Inc. A multi-brand IT solutions provider and simplified CRM email marketing platform. his background includes some other. Great companies, where he led, strategic marketing, at guided software, sun Microsystems, Panda Security, US Lockheed, marked the name a few, almost all those places. He led some type of brand development or go to market strategy and digital transformation, as if that's not enough. He's also a credentialed Microsoft certified systems engineer. Paul, he's also authored, aligning it roles in business, reflecting his beliefs and bridging technology expertise and business strategy. Love that. All too often, those two sides are not talking, right? the strategy, the business and how to leverage technology. So, great job on that. Paul, thank you for joining us today. how's it going?

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 1:51

Hey, Chris. Thank you for having me on. I'm excited to be, talking to you today and, what an intro, dude.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 1:57

I know.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 1:58

of stuff there.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 1:58

Yeah.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 1:59

you.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 2:00

I tell people it's one of the benefits of having tenure. You've done a lot, you've been around a minute, but you've done a lot of cool stuff and, that's something to be proud of, man. You've really done a great job. talk about adding value to society. I think that's really cool there. especially as a tech enthusiast. I love people like you that make it look so easy and you have a great personality. You're not a typical propeller head, as I like to call my engineering buddies.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 2:25

Thank you. fun ride. I don't think I'm done yet. There's a lot more to do. just loving every moment of it.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 2:31

man, that's the right attitude to have. You know, typical question I love to ask every guest, you know,'cause we, you have a very impressive professional bio, but there's obviously a lot more to who you are. There's a lot more to your journey. So what's not the bio? How did you get to where you're today?

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 2:48

you know, it was more of a pandemic sort of thing. you know, during the pandemic there was a lot of innovation. I mean, the pandemic changed the way we do many things, and one of those things was going remote. So,

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 3:01

Yeah.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 3:02

I telehealth was around before the pandemic, but it's the pandemic that, actually made me go have a telehealth call. of course my doctor's been our primary care physician's. Been the doctor for my parents, my wife, my kids. So I've known him for about 25, 30 years. So, you know, scheduled a telehealth appointment and it is like, he gets on video and says, what the hell do you want? I'm like, that's not a way to. Great. Your

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 3:24

Too much for

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 3:26

but

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 3:26

manners.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 3:27

exactly. But it got me thinking, right? I'm like, okay, hey, let's set, set aside that you've known me for all these years. would you know that it's me that you're talking to? So he says, yeah, just ask you for your name and date of birth. and he's like, yeah, what else do I need to know, right? I mean, so you, you'd ask me for my name and date of birth, and based on that, you would send a prescription to a pharmacy. Your back office will send a bill to the invo, to the insurance company. All this is done on a stated name and date of birth. It's like subprime loans all over again, you know, stated income. We all know how that ended up, right? So

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 4:05

Right.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 4:06

it got me thinking, got the gears turning, like, hey, there's gotta be a better way to verify the identity of folks, especially on a telehealth call. So started talking to a few more doctors and providers. being Indian, I have access to quite a network of doctors. everybody was like, we just asked them for a name and a date of birth because that checks the box in terms of a requirement for identity verification. Go figure. so that's what got me into, thinking how can we do this better? And one thing led to another, and here we are using facial biometrics, voice biometrics, verified identities, matching up against checking government databases, checking global watch list. It's become a beast. But the need for it is just about in every single thing that we do.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 4:54

Gosh. No, I love it. I got so many questions, but I got you, you, your comment about being Indian and whatnot, maybe reminded me of a, I think it was a commercial or maybe a. Instagram reel or something. this, Indian gentleman and his, adult son were on a plane and the flight attendant turned around and goes, is, is there a doctor on board? We need a doctor. And the Indian father looked at us and goes, see? No one's asking Is there any software engineers? I missed a couple. Man. I think it's kind of funny.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 5:22

I make light of it all the time. I mean, I'm not a, I didn't do good at school, so I never went to me. Well, I dropped out

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 5:27

You must have done pretty good,

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 5:29

out of school, right? I actually went to medical school, dropped out of there, and then I went to engineering, dropped out of that. the bar's really high and

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 5:36

Well, that explains a lot about your, overachieving.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 5:39

When we go to like parties or events, or even to an Indian grocery store, when I meet someone for the first time, the first thing they ask you is, are you an engineer? are you a doctor? And I'm like, nah, I just do marketing. They're like, oh, okay.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 5:51

You're just one of us.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 5:52

who didn't live up to mom and dad's expectations, but you know, hey,

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 5:55

Well, you, I think you're doing a great job, obviously. You know, we don't have to plant the flag here as they say, or, spend a lot of time here, but pre-show, we had a conversation and something came up that I'm really passionate about, mental health awareness. I was really, taken by that and appreciate your, being just, very, forthright about it What are your thoughts on mental health awareness?

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 6:17

You know, my take is, you know, we need to be more open about mental health. And, more accommodating of people. Right. I think, it's still stigmatized, I mean, especially in certain communities. but at the end of the day, you need to be able to talk to people more openly and be able to talk to people. Right. One of the re I mean, I've. Suffered from, you know, for a long, long time. I mean, probably a lot longer than it was originally diagnosed because, my parents always said, Hey, nah, you're okay. You don't have depression. You know, I suffer from manic depression, and I have, I've been through just about every medication you could possibly take. It's a fine balance in terms of medications, but more importantly it's being able to just talk to people being, you know, that's what I think today our society lacks is, you know, everybody's on. Social media and you know. The way society looks at you or the way you have to present yourself has altered the way you really feel about yourself. whether it's PTSD, whether it's manic depression, there's so many factors that affect you. And to me, I mean, almost everybody has some form of, of

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 7:26

Absolutely

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 7:27

and that's not the, there's nothing wrong with that, you know, it's actually

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 7:30

makes you human.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 7:31

It makes you human and to be able to accept that fact makes you super human.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 7:36

That's right.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 7:37

I mean, to have the strength to be able to talk to somebody, and that's not just a care provider, like a psychiatrist or to be able to talk to a friend, to talk to a, I talk to strangers about it. You know, you could see me at a bar and like, Hey man, oh, is that a, you know, what are you pop in there, you know, Hey, yeah, I've had that too. You know,

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 7:55

Yeah.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 7:55

it's important and I think more people need to be, supportive of mental health issues.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 8:01

Yeah, man. I've interviewed my niece, Brooke Tubo. she's a licensed, nurse practitioner for mental health. if you haven't heard that one, go back and check out the first one. In fact, I'm getting ready to release another one. people go to the heart doctor, they get their lungs checked, they get their blood work, no one goes and just gets their. Brain checked. life in the 21st century is hard and it's not made easier by social media, by no means. I think, that's a point to leave it on there is, hey, don't be afraid to talk to someone. Get help. Get resources. There's so many Call me, call Paul.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 8:31

Yeah.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 8:31

We'll help you.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 8:32

people to call me if you ever want to talk.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 8:34

Yeah, man.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 8:35

it's, it, it, it really is. and yes, there's resources, there's a ton of resources available.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 8:40

You're not alone. we need everybody.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 8:42

Yeah.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 8:42

Okay. That's, that's my army. Dark humor coming out. even if you don't listen to the show, I still want you to be around for your friends and family.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 8:48

Yes.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 8:49

have great things, ahead of you in life. So remember that, you know, we started out this whole conversation. Around identity verification. Of course you're being the CEO of verify now. I mean, you're a great person to ask this question too, I think. what's the state of the industry when it comes to identify identity verification? You know what, say you.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 9:08

So, Chris, when I talk to people or when I'm making a presentation or I'm speaking to folks about it, I start with, data breaches. last year, 2024 was a banner year for data breaches. globally over, 1.7 billion individuals. personal information was compromised. that's like, one in five or six individuals we've heard some of the bigger data breaches already over the past years, right? United Health, MGM. there's so many things. it's constantly happening. I get news alerts on data breaches every day, Large organizations being attacked for data because they have data worth stealing, as long as that's there, that's always gonna be happening, what's changed is how a lot of that data, a lot of that personal information is being used. AI has changed that, you need to have a pretty sophisticated network and most of these dark data breaches are State sponsored or foreign, organizations, because it's not easy to go in and take down a United Health or somebody like that, steal all their data. Right. They take that and they sell it on the dark web.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 10:19

Right.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 10:20

for, Hey, you know, do you want a credit history of, eight 40 with a credit limit, the largest credit limit of 40,000 with a New York City address? And yeah, it's, it's 120 bucks, you know, and

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 10:32

Yeah.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 10:32

doesn't work, we guarantee a replacement. we'll give you another one if that didn't work right. But, so that, that's what happens with a lot of these data breaches now. AI has made it so much easier to consume all of that because now the banks want you to do like, you know, a voice verification. You gotta say, my voice is my password. Before you

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 10:53

You done that?

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 10:54

well guess what? You know you could get AI tools for like 20 bucks a month. You're gonna call this bank. Hey, wait, wait a minute. I gotta sound like Chris now. Well, let me go look up his podcast. Okay, I just need five, a five second soundbite of Chris, and I'm gonna sound just like him.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 11:10

Right,

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 11:11

me what, a hundred bucks for the stolen PII or$10 for the, the AI platform to create that voice and boom, right? so what's happened is AI has made it so much easier to commit fraud, especially I.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 11:30

know, you hear it all the time, especially with cybersecurity training for employees. Third party verification, you know, and in the cybersecurity realm, you know, they'll always just, Hey, if you make it too complicated or too cumbersome, the end user will push back. They won't use it. They'll look for, they'll look for, sneak arounds or workarounds. how does verify now insurer that, you know, there's both rigorous protection against fraud and still a smooth, accessible experience for end users?

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 11:57

Absolutely right. So what, you know, we all take these cybersecurity tests. You know, my mom's a school teacher and she tells my 16-year-old to take the test for her. and the result of that is when the school sends one of those test phishing emails, she still clicks on it, right?

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 12:11

Right.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 12:12

those training programs and the cyber security test, focused on, you know, if you get an email from a Nigerian prince, don't send them money. If you get a phishing email, don't click on this email. They're not talking about what They haven't advanced much. Right? But you know, we are, are, are. Natural instinct is always to trust first. If you call customer service, whether it's for your bank, healthcare, anybody, they're gonna try to help you even though your intentions are malicious. They don't know that because our natural instinct is to trust first

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 12:46

Right.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 12:47

what we need to shift to with, with ai. And, and you don't know who's on the other end. Is it a deep fake? Is it a deepfake voice? Who is it? Right? So we need to learn to, to, to ask first, to verify first. And then trust Vera, tell me, let me prove it to me that you're really crisp before I actually help you out. Right? Versus, you know, yes, I get it. Right? So, so what is Vera? How do we do it? Right? We want to have a seamless, frictionless experience, right?

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 13:18

Okay.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 13:19

when you get signed up for TSA, they scan the front and back of the driver's license, have you look at the phone and verify that you're really there, matches the driver's license. We do all of that stuff. the whole thing is you don't want an individual to go through that process every single time. Right. Being able to detect liveness, that's the key point in really, defending against the deep fake attacks, right? Liveness detection is that because a deep fake video or a deep fake voice is always gonna be recorded. It's digital. it can be live because you can use these apps and speak live, but being able to detect that it's not coming from a live person, but it's being routed through an application is a key requirement to countering. these attacks. So we try to make it easy. When you call into customer service, just speak. You don't have to remember to say, my voice is my password. Just speak naturally. We detect you there. You're on a video call, just show up and, and we're able to detect you. Right? It's, they're still gonna be some level of friction because you're gonna have to take certain steps that you're not used to doing. the analogy I use is when credit card companies went from the magstripe to the chip cards, there was always gonna be that delay that we were not used to. It used to be just swipe, get the receipt and keep on going, but it took a few seconds longer for that chip to be read and that payment to be processed. Now that's gotten a lot faster and now we're with contactless and everything else, but we got used to that. Two second pause when the card was inserted and it had to process that right? The same way, you know, adding that layer of verification. and for us, once you know of using a facial authentication or even a voice authentication, with verify now is it's only two seconds we're able to, verify that you're really there in less than two seconds.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 16:50

Gimme some examples of some. Ideal customer profiles. what kind of companies are coming to you that are really like, this is a solution for us.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 16:58

So we hear about, banking and healthcare. they're the most regulated, most targeted, high fraught, right? But I'll tell you, higher education, colleges and universities are being hit big time. Our phones have been ringing off the hook. We've been getting emails from partners and directly from schools reaching out. And again, it started with the pandemic. Everything went remote, which means signing up for admissions. Went remote, you didn't have to go to the campus to complete your application. What they're facing is ghost students. And a ghost student is somebody who's not really there, right? So what you're seeing is, these IDs, through these data breaches, this personal information that's being stolen is being purchased and used with AI to generate the high school transcripts, admission to the school. Once you've got the admission, you've got the school's email address, you're able to go in and apply for financial aid. Your Pell Grant doesn't really ask you for, there's no ID verification. You have to prove that you're enrolled in the school. So happening are, what started with actually the California Community College, schools was they started to see, you know, what was happening was go students coming in, applying, using that admission to go in and get the student aid, and they were gone. And this is now plaguing high higher ed. so the, the, in June, the, the Department of Education set a requirement that you need identity verification, liveness detection and things like that. So now schools are all, and I think they have for this year. You know, they, for 2020, for the 25, 26 school years, when they're, I think the requirement's actually gonna be, you have to have it, you need to have the reporting and everything in place. And now schools are scrambling.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 18:49

Yeah.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 18:50

from the larger schools everywhere, from small community colleges to some of the top schools in the

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 18:56

do you think there's ideal customer profiles, people out there that don't know your So solution exists, I mean. I, I, I asked that because the, the, the next logical question is, you know, for partners that are working with maybe financial, legal healthcare clients, is there one or two easy discovery questions that could be asked to identify if there's an opportunity to bring you and your team?

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 19:20

Absolutely. I mean, it's so in, in financial and healthcare. the big concern is DeepFakes. if you are a, if you have a fairly fair, fairly, good size contact center, a big pain point for them is, are you being inundated by deepfake or robocall voice calls? for example, we were contacted by an organization that does about. 40 million calls, over 40 million inbound calls a month, and their concern was deep, fake, and robocall coming in. Get past the IVR gets transferred to the agent. The agent still has to spend a couple of seconds saying, hello, hello. And then they disconnect. But then they have to spend another minute to a minute and a half wrapping up that call time that could be spent answering. So one of the questions to be asking is, Hey, are your contact center affected by, a high rate of. fake calls or robocalls we're able to detect those. what kind of mechanisms do you have in place to minimize account takeover for your customers? if one of your customers accounts has been compromised, the first thing a bad actor's gonna do is reset the password. That's why we always get these emails saying that, Hey, did you request a password reset? If you didn't, don't do it. You don't have to worry about it. Right? If you did, go ahead and do this well, because a password reset right now for your bank account involves a six digit code that gets sent to your email address and your SMS. If your identity has been compromised, chances are your email has certainly been compromised. And with sim swapping and other SMS hijacking tools they're able to intercept that, which means a bad actor. So using a solution like Verify, now you'd need a facial authentication. So even if the bad actor got that link to complete a facial authentication, there's no way they're gonna look as good as Eucharist. so, It's protecting their customers, their, customer environment, their customer experiences, or even at a transactional level. if you're gonna wire over a certain amount of money, you need to do a verification code, it's Outdated, I would say MFA, procedures.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 21:31

is your solution a combination of software and hardware? Is the software only or how, how? How do you roll it out?

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 21:36

We're, software only. we are omni platform as in we integrate with the contact center solutions. We integrate with the bank's mobile app. We have mobile, SDK web apps and everything else. So it's always software driven. Yes, for facial authentication, using that biometric capture, you do need a device, but it's not device dependent. It can be any device that has a.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 21:58

I have a lead for you. It's a couple years old, but, it's kind of tongue in cheek. years ago I had a, partner call me and his client, I forgot the name of it. It was like one of the largest distributors of pork sausage and pigs, you know, and, he's like, Chris, you might not know this, but in the, pork industry or, you know, I guess what you call it, they put these tags on the ears of the, of the pigs to keep up with them. And you were talking about facial recognition last week at that event. Could they do facial recognition for pigs so they can decide, you know, which ones are coming to the trough if they're sick, you know, are they, you know, where is this pig? Is it on the truck? Is it being slaughtered? You know,'cause it costs money to keep up with the tags and someone's gotta put it on and someone's gotta take it off and then someone's gotta take it outta the system, you know? and we actually had a few people look into it. They're like, man, I don't think there's no way we can do it. Too many pigs look the same.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 22:52

I think we could do it. You know, we haven't tried it on animals yet, but I'm sure we could.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 22:57

Well, you know, that was a couple years ago. I agree with you. It's quite possible. I think one of the challenges when they come from like piglets to pigs, I mean they kind of grow rapidly and it was just a funny story.'cause I keep talking about how technology can solve all problems. I'm like, yeah, you might have gotten me on that one. I don't know if we could do that one.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 23:12

Yeah. You know,

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 23:13

the r tags

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 23:14

Yeah.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 23:14

the tags.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 23:16

But, no, it's, it's an evolving space. It's, it's fast growing and again, I think AI is what's powering, how it makes it easier for bad actors to commit some of these identity fraud, no matter whether it's with colleges. You know, another big space that we're starting to see a lot of interest is in the online space You know, it's very easy to go in and place an order I'll give you a real example. So we're working with this jewelry, company that's starting to sell more online, and what they're gonna be selling is these certified Rolex pre-owned Rolex watches. So they're anywhere from$3,000 to$65,000. Their concern, chargebacks, or friendly fraud. Customer places the order gets the watch, calls his bank, not the jeweler to say, Hey, I never placed this order. My card was probably stolen.'cause you can see I never bought a$65,000 Rolex. Right? The bank calls the jeweler. say, Hey, my customer says they didn't make this purchase. Can you prove that? You know, they were the ones that actually placed the order. The jeweler has all they have to go by is the credit card number and the address and everything else, and that's not enough. You have to match IDs so what we're gonna be doing is at the time of placing that order for that really expensive, certified Rolex watch, gonna verify your identity. That yes, I'm the one who's placing this order.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 24:42

Yeah.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 24:42

license and we're gonna look at the phone. We're gonna verify your identity. when that jeweler gets contacted by the bank, they're gonna be like, Hey, go kick rocks.'cause yes, this was Chris. He was really there. We verified his identity.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 24:55

It's documented.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 24:55

liveness, he's gonna, if he doesn't want the watch, he can ship it back to us and we'll refund.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 25:01

Two.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 25:02

that jeweler would've been out the watch and the money because the bank would've clawed back the money.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 25:07

Absolutely. Well, I feel like we just kind of, you know, broke open the topic here. There's a lot more to talk about. You definitely wanna check out, verify Now's website. I'll have links in the show notes. I'll have some more information about how to get a hold of Paul. Of course. I mean, yeah, that again, there's always more to talk about. But on that note though, is there anything you wanna leave us with that maybe we didn't cover in these last few minutes?

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 25:30

I think I did touch on it, right, that, our instincts say to trust the face that we see and the voice that we hear. we're on a video call you might think it's me because that's your first interest. Yeah. That looks like Paul. It must be Paul, but it could have been deep fake, sounds like Paul, but the reality is that it could be synthetic. So. we need to be reprogrammed to take on a zero trust approach. That needs to be the new common sense, as in zero trust. don't assume that that person is who they are or who they claim to be.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 26:03

that's,

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 26:03

verify first and then trust

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 26:06

yeah.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 26:06

you want to trust.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 26:08

Well that's, I mean, that's a really good one. I mean, I have, my in-laws are, late eighties, and 90. And we, you know, tell'em all the time, if you get a call from any of your grandkids wanting money, tell'em, hang up and, and call them back. Or, you know, we were talking about our, we have four kids that are all adults and, and like, maybe we should come up with like a family code word.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 26:27

Right? Yep.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 26:28

It's okay. What's the code word? And it can't be anything that's used anywhere else, A unique family code word that if, if it's really you and you're, you're in a foreign country and you need bail money, which I think I would know that if you were in a foreign country. But, but if you don't know the code word, you're not getting anything buddy.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 26:44

You have to verify family before you can trust them.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 26:48

that's crazy, isn't it?

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 26:49

of affairs,

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 26:50

Verify now.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 26:52

that's it

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 26:52

right. Verify now. Well, man, Paul, thanks so much. It's been a great conversation. Very eye-opening. And you know, again, if you're listening, check the show notes, guys. Check the show notes. Go to the website.

paul-velusamy_1_09-03-2025_122752: 27:02

Thanks Chris for having me on. You're awesome. Always love talking to you Thanks buddy.

chris_1_09-03-2025_152751: 27:07

You bet, man. It's my pleasure. And as always, folks, you know, it's a wireless way. another PO topic I'm passionate about is, cell phone for soldiers. You know, if you're a company and you have, Pallets. full of old cell phones, you don't know what to do with, contact cell phone for soldiers. They will gladly repurpose'em and give you money for them and put'em in the hands of veterans that are struggling with mental health illnesses. most, the VA services are done over a phone. if you're a homeless veteran, you don't have a phone, well you can't use the services. So, you know, recycle and repurpose old, mobile devices and, check the show notes and always go. To, the wireless way.net. If you want to communicate with me, I'd love to hear from you@thewirelessway.net. And as always, thanks so much for checking out this episode, and we'll see you next time on The Wireless Way.